All In Calling Requirements Advice - Late Stages of a Tour..

On Sep 10, 7:54 am, bashers....DeleteThis@gmail.com wrote:
> Wanted to get some advice from the group on a situation that arises
> late in big MTTs. I was playing the 750k on Full Tilt last night, and
> faced the following situation a few times.
>
> In general, assume you are late in a tournament with an average to
> below average stack. The blinds and antes are considerable, and there
> are 2 ro 3 players at your table with an M in the 3-5 range, and you
> have an M in the 6-8 range. One of the short stacks goes all in in
> late position. The action folds to you.
>
> What are your calling requirements?
>
> I made the wrong decision twice last night, and while it didn't bust
> me, it obviously put a large dent in my stack. I assume in this case
> that the short stack will push with ANY pair, any two face cards, and
> probably any ace.


That's a pretty broad range, although not unreasonable. However, some
short stacks in this situation become short by blinding off waiting
for a big hand, in which case you need to tighten up your calling
range considerably. I tend to call in a normal situation with a
medium to big pair (88+) or an Ace-face if I think there's a good
chance it's a race and I can afford to gamble. Calling with Ace-rag
or KQ/KJ is basically praying that you're in a 60/40 with a good
chance of a much worse situation. If their all-in is an overbet of
the pot, I typically wouldn't call with those types of hands.

Michael
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<basherspam.RemoveThis@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1189436046.787749.219610@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
> Wanted to get some advice from the group on a situation that arises
> late in big MTTs. I was playing the 750k on Full Tilt last night, and
> faced the following situation a few times.
>
> In general, assume you are late in a tournament with an average to
> below average stack. The blinds and antes are considerable, and there
> are 2 ro 3 players at your table with an M in the 3-5 range, and you
> have an M in the 6-8 range. One of the short stacks goes all in in
> late position. The action folds to you.
>
> What are your calling requirements?
>
> I made the wrong decision twice last night, and while it didn't bust
> me, it obviously put a large dent in my stack. I assume in this case
> that the short stack will push with ANY pair, any two face cards, and
> probably any ace.
>

I don't like to call a single all-in player when I have a medium stack (Real
late in a tournament, M of 8 is still workable). I'd need a big hand
(probably a pair bigger than Js, suited cards at least KJ or unsuited at
least AQ).
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basherspam.RemoveThis@gmail.com wrote:
> Wanted to get some advice from the group on a situation that arises
> late in big MTTs. I was playing the 750k on Full Tilt last night, and
> faced the following situation a few times.
>
> In general, assume you are late in a tournament with an average to
> below average stack. The blinds and antes are considerable, and there
> are 2 ro 3 players at your table with an M in the 3-5 range, and you
> have an M in the 6-8 range. One of the short stacks goes all in in
> late position. The action folds to you.
>
> What are your calling requirements?
>
> I made the wrong decision twice last night, and while it didn't bust
> me, it obviously put a large dent in my stack. I assume in this case
> that the short stack will push with ANY pair, any two face cards, and
> probably any ace.
>

You do realize that the pusher can actually wake up with a hand, right?

It is true at this stage with low-m, that you are going to see a wide
variety of hands. This makes calling with moderate cards reasonable,
but with a stack like yours, you probably should not be calling unless
you understand that you are taking a major risk, and this major risk
seems like the best major risk to be taking.

Fundamentally, you should try and have more chips at this stage. This
always happens, and it will be difficult for the 6-8 M players to play
in position, because of the consolidation going on st this point. If
you wait, your M will drop to low, and if you play your risk is too
high. Knowing this consolidations stage is coming, you need to press a
little harder in position a bit earlier, this will mean that you will
have more breathing room at this stage.

If you get here, and this is where you are at, pretty much you need to
get lucky. Look for an opportunity to do so, triple up, or find a good
positional scenario. If you do so, you should money, if you can't find
it, well, thats how tourneys work.
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On Sep 10 2007 10:54 AM, basherspam wrote:

> Wanted to get some advice from the group on a situation that arises
> late in big MTTs. I was playing the 750k on Full Tilt last night, and
> faced the following situation a few times.
>
> In general, assume you are late in a tournament with an average to
> below average stack. The blinds and antes are considerable, and there
> are 2 ro 3 players at your table with an M in the 3-5 range, and you
> have an M in the 6-8 range. One of the short stacks goes all in in
> late position. The action folds to you.
>
> What are your calling requirements?
>
> I made the wrong decision twice last night, and while it didn't bust
> me, it obviously put a large dent in my stack. I assume in this case
> that the short stack will push with ANY pair, any two face cards, and
> probably any ace.

Pretty hard question to answer. I've been doing better at tourneys of late
(variance in my favor - yay!) but my checklist would be something like:

1) how has the all-in player been playing? I've seen some guys blind away
to nothing (things like folding their Small Blind when folded around to
them) and only push with QQ+ or AK. Without a monster you just let it go.
If they have been pushing a lot of hands, then you don't put them on a big
hand...but you move on to...

2) how have the stacks behind me been playing? If there is big stack who
has shown no fear of mixing it up I'd need QQ+ to get involved - and I'd
want to be pushing myself so lock out anyone behind me - simply calling is
asking for trouble; the same problem could happen if there is another
stack in the M 3-5 range behind me - if that player has been anything but
a total rock there is every chance that he could see an opportunity to
triple-up and then my hand has to hold up vs. 2 hands. All this to say:
I'd need a monster to get involved most times.

Hands that in the past I would get jiggy with (like calling with KQo or
A-9s) seem to be so far behind much of the time that it's just giving
chips away. While I may very well have pushed to steal the blinds with KQo
or A9s if folded to me in LP, no way I call with it.

A decent rule of thumb is "never call." Obviously if you have AA/KK you
don't follow that rule, but it's especially important late. So maybe your
train of thought should be:

"I'm folding unless something exceptional happens". Then you will have to
rationalize why you're getting involved, rather than why you should fold.

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