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I Am Too Cheap To Tip Dealers

 
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Lute

External


Since: Apr 30, 2007
Posts: 221



(Msg. 1) Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 10:57 am
Post subject: I Am Too Cheap To Tip Dealers
Archived from groups: rec>gambling>poker (more info?)

I Am Too Cheap To Tip Dealers.

Don't get me wrong. I tip waiters and waitresses, I tip valet car
staff, I even tip the guy who mows my lawn. But when it comes to
tipping dealers, I have severely reduced my tips, and I now tip only
when I am ahead of the game (with some exceptions as noted below).

Tipping poker dealers is a really bad deal, once you start adding up
the cost. Let's say you tip about five percent of each pot you win.
That's an enormous price, considering that your cost of winning that
one pot is the dollar amount of lost bets (including blinds) that you
make prior to winning that pot.

One of the reasons I play mostly online nowadays is that the cost of
tipping is eliminated altogether. (Also, the rake is about half of a
b&m game.) That's a significant increase in profit.

I have the utmost regard for those poker dealers who are really good,
who keep control of the table, and who make the experience more
pleasant. I never stiff these guys and gals, even when I am behind.
They should get paid more.

But most dealers are not that good. My main complaint is about
dealers that allow players (not in the hand) to get away with talking
about a hand during play that may harm an active player. But plenty
of dealers are just mediocre, and do not earn their $30 plus/hour
tips.

In the end, the decision is financial. I'll pay value for value
received. But as I reevaluate my profit/loss patterns in the game, I
am becoming increasingly aware that dealer tips can be very expensive
over the long haul.

Psychologically, it is difficult to withhold tips to which dealers
feel entitled, but I'm overcoming that. Call me greedy, but I think
that the whole dealer-tipping thing is based on the invalid concept
that a won poker pot is "free money" to the winner. It's not. When
you add up the overhead and opportunity costs, there is a lot of
investment involved in that end-of-month withdrawal from the poker
account. And of course, when you have a losing month, every dollar in
tips only adds to the losses.

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CincinnatiKid

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Since: Feb 06, 2007
Posts: 513



(Msg. 2) Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 11:40 am
Post subject: Re: I Am Too Cheap To Tip Dealers [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On Apr 4 2008 1:57 PM, Lute wrote:

> I Am Too Cheap To Tip Dealers.
>
> Don't get me wrong. I tip waiters and waitresses, I tip valet car
> staff, I even tip the guy who mows my lawn. But when it comes to
> tipping dealers, I have severely reduced my tips, and I now tip only
> when I am ahead of the game (with some exceptions as noted below).
>
> Tipping poker dealers is a really bad deal, once you start adding up
> the cost. Let's say you tip about five percent of each pot you win.
> That's an enormous price, considering that your cost of winning that
> one pot is the dollar amount of lost bets (including blinds) that you
> make prior to winning that pot.
>
> One of the reasons I play mostly online nowadays is that the cost of
> tipping is eliminated altogether. (Also, the rake is about half of a
> b&m game.) That's a significant increase in profit.
>
> I have the utmost regard for those poker dealers who are really good,
> who keep control of the table, and who make the experience more
> pleasant. I never stiff these guys and gals, even when I am behind.
> They should get paid more.
>
> But most dealers are not that good. My main complaint is about
> dealers that allow players (not in the hand) to get away with talking
> about a hand during play that may harm an active player. But plenty
> of dealers are just mediocre, and do not earn their $30 plus/hour
> tips.
>
> In the end, the decision is financial. I'll pay value for value
> received. But as I reevaluate my profit/loss patterns in the game, I
> am becoming increasingly aware that dealer tips can be very expensive
> over the long haul.
>
> Psychologically, it is difficult to withhold tips to which dealers
> feel entitled, but I'm overcoming that. Call me greedy, but I think
> that the whole dealer-tipping thing is based on the invalid concept
> that a won poker pot is "free money" to the winner. It's not. When
> you add up the overhead and opportunity costs, there is a lot of
> investment involved in that end-of-month withdrawal from the poker
> account. And of course, when you have a losing month, every dollar in
> tips only adds to the losses.

You're one cheap son of a bitch. $1 a winning pot isn't gonna break you.
If you were at my table I'd have no problem telling you how cheap you are
to your face. I berate the players who don't tip and will always do it til
one of them decides to kick my ass.

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Lute

External


Since: Apr 30, 2007
Posts: 221



(Msg. 3) Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 12:48 pm
Post subject: Re: I Am Too Cheap To Tip Dealers [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

$1 per winning pot is less than what I tip for a pot of any
considerable size.
But tipping $1 for winning the blinds in $1-$2 is a bit too much.
And dealers seem to expect it.

But pot size should not determine the size of the tip. Did the dealer
earn MORE because I induced a larger call from an opponent?

Much more depends on the quality of the dealer. For very competent
dealers, I will tip them as they leave the table, even if I have not
won a hand in the entire half hour that that dealer was at my table.
It's important to reward the good dealers. And to provide incentive
to the ones who think that it's okay to slow down the game to chat
with passersby, and similar inconsiderate behavior.

I don't think I'd make a good dealer myself. Having watched good
dealers deal, I think that many of them could manage a complex
business profitably. There are a lot of things going on at a poker
table, and a good dealer stays on top of all of it, all at the same
time, while making it look easy.

But in answer to your specific comment--- I must ask, WHY does one
tip? If it's only to avoid having some stranger tell me to my face
how cheap an SOB I am, then have at it. I've been called much worse,
and sometimes deservedly so.

I tip well for a reason, and just as much so, I withhold or reduce
tips for a reason.

What's yours?



On Apr 4, 3:40 pm, "CincinnatiKid" <a1... DeleteThis @webnntp.invalid> wrote:
> On Apr 4 2008 1:57 PM, Lute wrote:
>
> > I Am Too Cheap To Tip Dealers.
>
> > Don't get me wrong.  I tip waiters and waitresses, I tip valet car
> > staff, I even tip the guy who mows my lawn.  But when it comes to
> > tipping dealers, I have severely reduced my tips, and I now tip only
> > when I am ahead of the game (with some exceptions as noted below).
>
> > Tipping poker dealers is a really bad deal, once you start adding up
> > the cost.  Let's say you tip about five percent of each pot you win.
> > That's an enormous price, considering that your cost of winning that
> > one pot is the dollar amount of lost bets (including blinds) that you
> > make prior to winning that pot.
>
> > One of the reasons I play mostly online nowadays is that the cost of
> > tipping is eliminated altogether.  (Also, the rake is about half of a
> > b&m game.)  That's a significant increase in profit.
>
> > I have the utmost regard for those poker dealers who are really good,
> > who keep control of the table, and who make the experience more
> > pleasant.  I never stiff these guys and gals, even when I am behind.
> > They should get paid more.
>
> > But most dealers are not that good.  My main complaint is about
> > dealers that allow players (not in the hand) to get away with talking
> > about a hand during play that may harm an active player.  But plenty
> > of dealers are just mediocre, and do not earn their $30 plus/hour
> > tips.
>
> > In the end, the decision is financial.  I'll pay value for value
> > received.  But as I reevaluate my profit/loss patterns in the game, I
> > am becoming increasingly aware that dealer tips can be very expensive
> > over the long haul.
>
> > Psychologically, it is difficult to withhold tips to which dealers
> > feel entitled, but I'm overcoming that.  Call me greedy, but I think
> > that the whole dealer-tipping thing is based on the invalid concept
> > that a won poker pot is "free money" to the winner.  It's not.  When
> > you add up the overhead and opportunity costs, there is a lot of
> > investment involved in that end-of-month withdrawal from the poker
> > account.  And of course, when you have a losing month, every dollar in
> > tips only adds to the losses.
>
> You're one cheap son of a bitch. $1 a winning pot isn't gonna break you.
> If you were at my table I'd have no problem telling you how cheap you are
> to your face. I berate the players who don't tip and will always do it til
> one of them decides to kick my ass.
>
> ________________________________________________________________________ 
> : the next generation of web-newsreaders :http://www.recgroups.com- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
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XaQ Morphy

External


Since: Aug 10, 2007
Posts: 3282



(Msg. 4) Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 12:48 pm
Post subject: Re: I Am Too Cheap To Tip Dealers [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On Apr 4 2008 2:48 PM, Lute wrote:

> I tip well for a reason, and just as much so, I withhold or reduce
> tips for a reason.
>
> What's yours?

When I tip online, it's so that I don't receive any rigged deals. Perhaps
you should try that so we don't have to listen to your monthly drivel
about how you keep losing online?

---
Morphy
xaqmorphy.RemoveThis@donkeymanifesto.com
http://www.donkeymanifesto.com

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Wayne Vinson

External


Since: Jan 12, 2008
Posts: 440



(Msg. 5) Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 1:38 pm
Post subject: Re: I Am Too Cheap To Tip Dealers [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On Apr 4 2008 12:57 PM, Lute wrote:

> I Am Too Cheap To Tip Dealers.
>
> Don't get me wrong. I tip waiters and waitresses, I tip valet car
> staff, I even tip the guy who mows my lawn. But when it comes to
> tipping dealers, I have severely reduced my tips, and I now tip only
> when I am ahead of the game (with some exceptions as noted below).
>
> Tipping poker dealers is a really bad deal, once you start adding up
> the cost. Let's say you tip about five percent of each pot you win.
> That's an enormous price, considering that your cost of winning that
> one pot is the dollar amount of lost bets (including blinds) that you
> make prior to winning that pot.
>
> One of the reasons I play mostly online nowadays is that the cost of
> tipping is eliminated altogether. (Also, the rake is about half of a
> b&m game.) That's a significant increase in profit.
>
> I have the utmost regard for those poker dealers who are really good,
> who keep control of the table, and who make the experience more
> pleasant. I never stiff these guys and gals, even when I am behind.
> They should get paid more.
>
> But most dealers are not that good. My main complaint is about
> dealers that allow players (not in the hand) to get away with talking
> about a hand during play that may harm an active player. But plenty
> of dealers are just mediocre, and do not earn their $30 plus/hour
> tips.
>
> In the end, the decision is financial. I'll pay value for value
> received. But as I reevaluate my profit/loss patterns in the game, I
> am becoming increasingly aware that dealer tips can be very expensive
> over the long haul.
>
> Psychologically, it is difficult to withhold tips to which dealers
> feel entitled, but I'm overcoming that. Call me greedy, but I think
> that the whole dealer-tipping thing is based on the invalid concept
> that a won poker pot is "free money" to the winner. It's not. When
> you add up the overhead and opportunity costs, there is a lot of
> investment involved in that end-of-month withdrawal from the poker
> account. And of course, when you have a losing month, every dollar in
> tips only adds to the losses.


Personally I prefer to play at stakes sufficiently big that tipping $1/pot
won is not a financial burden. Sure, it's a big deal at 3/6 or whatever,
but at 30/60 it has very little effect on your outcome compared to your
play, the time charge, etc.

That said, I think you have an idiotic idea of what constitutes a good
dealer. The last thing you want is a dealer who discourages talking at
the table and "controls" the game. Yes, the rules need to be more or less
observed. But beyond that, you want a table that is chatty and having fun
and a dealer with a loose approach tends to encourage that. If some of
that chat is about hands, it's really not a big deal. They're probably
wrong anyways.

You make very little money at a table full of people silently grinding out
their best game, unless your opponents are just atrocious.

Wayne Vinson
http://cardsharp.org
Wayne (dot) Vinson (at) gmail (dot) com

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CincinnatiKid

External


Since: Feb 06, 2007
Posts: 513



(Msg. 6) Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 2:00 pm
Post subject: Re: I Am Too Cheap To Tip Dealers [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On Apr 4 2008 5:38 PM, Wayne Vinson wrote:

> On Apr 4 2008 12:57 PM, Lute wrote:
>
> > I Am Too Cheap To Tip Dealers.
> >
> > Don't get me wrong. I tip waiters and waitresses, I tip valet car
> > staff, I even tip the guy who mows my lawn. But when it comes to
> > tipping dealers, I have severely reduced my tips, and I now tip only
> > when I am ahead of the game (with some exceptions as noted below).
> >
> > Tipping poker dealers is a really bad deal, once you start adding up
> > the cost. Let's say you tip about five percent of each pot you win.
> > That's an enormous price, considering that your cost of winning that
> > one pot is the dollar amount of lost bets (including blinds) that you
> > make prior to winning that pot.
> >
> > One of the reasons I play mostly online nowadays is that the cost of
> > tipping is eliminated altogether. (Also, the rake is about half of a
> > b&m game.) That's a significant increase in profit.
> >
> > I have the utmost regard for those poker dealers who are really good,
> > who keep control of the table, and who make the experience more
> > pleasant. I never stiff these guys and gals, even when I am behind.
> > They should get paid more.
> >
> > But most dealers are not that good. My main complaint is about
> > dealers that allow players (not in the hand) to get away with talking
> > about a hand during play that may harm an active player. But plenty
> > of dealers are just mediocre, and do not earn their $30 plus/hour
> > tips.
> >
> > In the end, the decision is financial. I'll pay value for value
> > received. But as I reevaluate my profit/loss patterns in the game, I
> > am becoming increasingly aware that dealer tips can be very expensive
> > over the long haul.
> >
> > Psychologically, it is difficult to withhold tips to which dealers
> > feel entitled, but I'm overcoming that. Call me greedy, but I think
> > that the whole dealer-tipping thing is based on the invalid concept
> > that a won poker pot is "free money" to the winner. It's not. When
> > you add up the overhead and opportunity costs, there is a lot of
> > investment involved in that end-of-month withdrawal from the poker
> > account. And of course, when you have a losing month, every dollar in
> > tips only adds to the losses.
>
>
> Personally I prefer to play at stakes sufficiently big that tipping $1/pot
> won is not a financial burden. Sure, it's a big deal at 3/6 or whatever,
> but at 30/60 it has very little effect on your outcome compared to your
> play, the time charge, etc.
>
> That said, I think you have an idiotic idea of what constitutes a good
> dealer. The last thing you want is a dealer who discourages talking at
> the table and "controls" the game. Yes, the rules need to be more or less
> observed. But beyond that, you want a table that is chatty and having fun
> and a dealer with a loose approach tends to encourage that. If some of
> that chat is about hands, it's really not a big deal. They're probably
> wrong anyways.
>
> You make very little money at a table full of people silently grinding out
> their best game, unless your opponents are just atrocious.
>
> Wayne Vinson
> http://cardsharp.org
> Wayne (dot) Vinson (at) gmail (dot) com

Way to slip a brag in there, Wayne. I'm gonna go puke now.

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Wayne Vinson

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Since: Jan 12, 2008
Posts: 440



(Msg. 7) Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 2:10 pm
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> Way to slip a brag in there, Wayne. I'm gonna go puke now.

OK, consider it a brag if you want, but that wasn't the point. The point
is that if you play tiny games, the net result is that you get nibbled to
death by ducks. The rake, dealer tips, drink tips, room costs, food
costs, gas money etc. eat into your theoretical win rate and the result is
that you can't make much money playing poker no matter how well you play.
Any one cost may not be that big, but collectively the effect is difficult
to overcome - impossible against certain lineups and structures. The only
solution is to play bigger.

Wayne Vinson
http://cardsharp.org
Wayne (dot) Vinson (at) gmail (dot) com

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CincinnatiKid

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Since: Feb 06, 2007
Posts: 513



(Msg. 8) Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 3:04 pm
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On Apr 4 2008 6:10 PM, Wayne Vinson wrote:

> > Way to slip a brag in there, Wayne. I'm gonna go puke now.
>
> OK, consider it a brag if you want, but that wasn't the point. The point
> is that if you play tiny games, the net result is that you get nibbled to
> death by ducks. The rake, dealer tips, drink tips, room costs, food
> costs, gas money etc. eat into your theoretical win rate and the result is
> that you can't make much money playing poker no matter how well you play.
> Any one cost may not be that big, but collectively the effect is difficult
> to overcome - impossible against certain lineups and structures. The only
> solution is to play bigger.
>
> Wayne Vinson
> http://cardsharp.org
> Wayne (dot) Vinson (at) gmail (dot) com

First, get over yourself. If you're playing 3/6 you're not playing for a
living. You're there to have fun. Second, if you're playing 1/3 NL+ than a
$1 a pot and a $1 a drink isn't jack shit.

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Wayne Vinson

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Since: Jan 12, 2008
Posts: 440



(Msg. 9) Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 5:57 pm
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> First, get over yourself. If you're playing 3/6 you're not playing for a
> living. You're there to have fun. Second, if you're playing 1/3 NL+ than a
> $1 a pot and a $1 a drink isn't jack shit.

It's my experience that losing isn't fun, no matter what people may claim.

Second, rake, tip, and incidental expenses make a huge difference at a
game like 1/3 NL. Suppose you're crushing the game & would beat it for 25
BB per 100 hands on average if it weren't raked, and the dealers are
pretty decent so you get 35 hands/hour on average. Those are both
optimistic numbers. Now, that translates to $75/100hands, and $26.25 per
hour. That's not a bad rate - it's about what an average entry level
college grad makes.

But wait, you win an average of 3 pots per hour. We'll say $3 rake per
pot (assuming a $4 rake that doesn't always get maxed out) and there's a
jackpot drop of $1. Now you're only making $14.25 an hour. That's more
like vocational school money. But wait, you tip $1/hand you win. Now
you're making $11.25 - McDonalds manager money. But wait - you get a
drink per hour, and tip the drink girl $1. Make that $10.25. And you
drive 45 minutes to the card room each way, consuming $10 in gas. And you
tip $1 to the chip runner at the start of your session, for $11 in fixed
expenses per session - we'll say it's a 6 hour session. Now you're making
$8.42 per hour. Which puts you just slightly ahead of this guy

http://www.theonion.com/content/node/39087

That is until he gets promoted to assistant manager, at which point he'll
probably be out earning you. Moral of the story: rake and expenses turn
poker into a menial job in a hurry if you play too small.

Wayne Vinson
http://cardsharp.org
Wayne (dot) Vinson (at) gmail (dot) com

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CincinnatiKid

External


Since: Feb 06, 2007
Posts: 513



(Msg. 10) Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 7:07 pm
Post subject: Re: I Am Too Cheap To Tip Dealers [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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On Apr 4 2008 9:57 PM, Wayne Vinson wrote:

> > First, get over yourself. If you're playing 3/6 you're not playing for a
> > living. You're there to have fun. Second, if you're playing 1/3 NL+ than a
> > $1 a pot and a $1 a drink isn't jack shit.
>
> It's my experience that losing isn't fun, no matter what people may claim.
>
> Second, rake, tip, and incidental expenses make a huge difference at a
> game like 1/3 NL. Suppose you're crushing the game & would beat it for 25
> BB per 100 hands on average if it weren't raked, and the dealers are
> pretty decent so you get 35 hands/hour on average. Those are both
> optimistic numbers. Now, that translates to $75/100hands, and $26.25 per
> hour. That's not a bad rate - it's about what an average entry level
> college grad makes.
>
> But wait, you win an average of 3 pots per hour. We'll say $3 rake per
> pot (assuming a $4 rake that doesn't always get maxed out) and there's a
> jackpot drop of $1. Now you're only making $14.25 an hour. That's more
> like vocational school money. But wait, you tip $1/hand you win. Now
> you're making $11.25 - McDonalds manager money. But wait - you get a
> drink per hour, and tip the drink girl $1. Make that $10.25. And you
> drive 45 minutes to the card room each way, consuming $10 in gas. And you
> tip $1 to the chip runner at the start of your session, for $11 in fixed
> expenses per session - we'll say it's a 6 hour session. Now you're making
> $8.42 per hour. Which puts you just slightly ahead of this guy
>
> http://www.theonion.com/content/node/39087
>
> That is until he gets promoted to assistant manager, at which point he'll
> probably be out earning you. Moral of the story: rake and expenses turn
> poker into a menial job in a hurry if you play too small.
>
> Wayne Vinson
> http://cardsharp.org
> Wayne (dot) Vinson (at) gmail (dot) com

If that's all you're making in a 1/3 NL game than you need to find a new
game. I'm pissed if I don't cash out at least $500 ($200 profit). That's
not bad for 6-8 hours. Sometimes you busto...sometimes you cash out $1500.
$200 a "session" is a VERY attainable number.

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Wayne Vinson

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Since: Jan 12, 2008
Posts: 440



(Msg. 11) Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 7:49 pm
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> If that's all you're making in a 1/3 NL game than you need to find a new
> game. I'm pissed if I don't cash out at least $500 ($200 profit). That's
> not bad for 6-8 hours. Sometimes you busto...sometimes you cash out $1500.
> $200 a "session" is a VERY attainable number.

The very fact that you put it in terms of ill defined "sessions" rather
than an hourly or per hundred rate tells me you have no meaningful records
to back your assertion and are just blowing smoke.

Carry on.

Wayne Vinson
http://cardsharp.org
Wayne (dot) Vinson (at) gmail (dot) com

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CincinnatiKid

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Since: Feb 06, 2007
Posts: 513



(Msg. 12) Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 8:10 pm
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On Apr 4 2008 11:49 PM, Wayne Vinson wrote:

> > If that's all you're making in a 1/3 NL game than you need to find a new
> > game. I'm pissed if I don't cash out at least $500 ($200 profit). That's
> > not bad for 6-8 hours. Sometimes you busto...sometimes you cash out $1500.
> > $200 a "session" is a VERY attainable number.
>
> The very fact that you put it in terms of ill defined "sessions" rather
> than an hourly or per hundred rate tells me you have no meaningful records
> to back your assertion and are just blowing smoke.
>
> Carry on.
>
> Wayne Vinson
> http://cardsharp.org
> Wayne (dot) Vinson (at) gmail (dot) com

What in the fuck are you talking about now? I don't play poker for a
living, Wayne.

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Russ Georgiev

External


Since: Jan 09, 2008
Posts: 96



(Msg. 13) Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 8:31 pm
Post subject: Re: I Am Too Cheap To Tip Dealers [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

You're an Idiot Kid and Lute is right. In the big games, we used to take out a
$25 chip for the dealers half hour so no one tipped. Gigantic pots and tips that
added up to $1.00 at most in the biggest games in the casino's.

On Apr 4 2008 11:40 AM, CincinnatiKid wrote:

> On Apr 4 2008 1:57 PM, Lute wrote:
>
> > I Am Too Cheap To Tip Dealers.
> >
> > Don't get me wrong. I tip waiters and waitresses, I tip valet car
> > staff, I even tip the guy who mows my lawn. But when it comes to
> > tipping dealers, I have severely reduced my tips, and I now tip only
> > when I am ahead of the game (with some exceptions as noted below).
> >
> > Tipping poker dealers is a really bad deal, once you start adding up
> > the cost. Let's say you tip about five percent of each pot you win.
> > That's an enormous price, considering that your cost of winning that
> > one pot is the dollar amount of lost bets (including blinds) that you
> > make prior to winning that pot.
> >
> > One of the reasons I play mostly online nowadays is that the cost of
> > tipping is eliminated altogether. (Also, the rake is about half of a
> > b&m game.) That's a significant increase in profit.
> >
> > I have the utmost regard for those poker dealers who are really good,
> > who keep control of the table, and who make the experience more
> > pleasant. I never stiff these guys and gals, even when I am behind.
> > They should get paid more.
> >
> > But most dealers are not that good. My main complaint is about
> > dealers that allow players (not in the hand) to get away with talking
> > about a hand during play that may harm an active player. But plenty
> > of dealers are just mediocre, and do not earn their $30 plus/hour
> > tips.
> >
> > In the end, the decision is financial. I'll pay value for value
> > received. But as I reevaluate my profit/loss patterns in the game, I
> > am becoming increasingly aware that dealer tips can be very expensive
> > over the long haul.
> >
> > Psychologically, it is difficult to withhold tips to which dealers
> > feel entitled, but I'm overcoming that. Call me greedy, but I think
> > that the whole dealer-tipping thing is based on the invalid concept
> > that a won poker pot is "free money" to the winner. It's not. When
> > you add up the overhead and opportunity costs, there is a lot of
> > investment involved in that end-of-month withdrawal from the poker
> > account. And of course, when you have a losing month, every dollar in
> > tips only adds to the losses.
>
> You're one cheap son of a bitch. $1 a winning pot isn't gonna break you.
> If you were at my table I'd have no problem telling you how cheap you are
> to your face. I berate the players who don't tip and will always do it til
> one of them decides to kick my ass.



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XaQ Morphy

External


Since: Aug 10, 2007
Posts: 3282



(Msg. 14) Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 8:31 pm
Post subject: Re: I Am Too Cheap To Tip Dealers [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On Apr 4 2008 3:31 PM, Russ Georgiev wrote:

> You're an Idiot Kid and Lute is right. In the big games, we used to take out
a
> $25 chip for the dealers half hour so no one tipped. Gigantic pots and tips
that
> added up to $1.00 at most in the biggest games in the casino's.

Russ, here's your 3rd grade grammar lesson:

1 casino = casino
2 or more of them = casinos
something that belongs to one of them = casino's

Here's some sentences:

Russ claims he is not allowed to set foot in any casino is Las Vegas.
Russ is afraid to play Barry Greenstein in any of the casinos that Barry
plays in.
Russ claims the casino's security staff won't allow him through the front
door.

Hope this helps.

---
Morphy
xaqmorphy DeleteThis @donkeymanifesto.com
http://www.donkeymanifesto.com

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CincinnatiKid

External


Since: Feb 06, 2007
Posts: 513



(Msg. 15) Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 8:31 pm
Post subject: Re: I Am Too Cheap To Tip Dealers [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On Apr 4 2008 4:31 PM, Russ Georgiev wrote:

> You're an Idiot Kid and Lute is right. In the big games, we used to take out
a
> $25 chip for the dealers half hour so no one tipped. Gigantic pots and tips
that
> added up to $1.00 at most in the biggest games in the casino's.

The definition of irony.

> On Apr 4 2008 11:40 AM, CincinnatiKid wrote:
>
> > On Apr 4 2008 1:57 PM, Lute wrote:
> >
> > > I Am Too Cheap To Tip Dealers.
> > >
> > > Don't get me wrong. I tip waiters and waitresses, I tip valet car
> > > staff, I even tip the guy who mows my lawn. But when it comes to
> > > tipping dealers, I have severely reduced my tips, and I now tip only
> > > when I am ahead of the game (with some exceptions as noted below).
> > >
> > > Tipping poker dealers is a really bad deal, once you start adding up
> > > the cost. Let's say you tip about five percent of each pot you win.
> > > That's an enormous price, considering that your cost of winning that
> > > one pot is the dollar amount of lost bets (including blinds) that you
> > > make prior to winning that pot.
> > >
> > > One of the reasons I play mostly online nowadays is that the cost of
> > > tipping is eliminated altogether. (Also, the rake is about half of a
> > > b&m game.) That's a significant increase in profit.
> > >
> > > I have the utmost regard for those poker dealers who are really good,
> > > who keep control of the table, and who make the experience more
> > > pleasant. I never stiff these guys and gals, even when I am behind.
> > > They should get paid more.
> > >
> > > But most dealers are not that good. My main complaint is about
> > > dealers that allow players (not in the hand) to get away with talking
> > > about a hand during play that may harm an active player. But plenty
> > > of dealers are just mediocre, and do not earn their $30 plus/hour
> > > tips.
> > >
> > > In the end, the decision is financial. I'll pay value for value
> > > received. But as I reevaluate my profit/loss patterns in the game, I
> > > am becoming increasingly aware that dealer tips can be very expensive
> > > over the long haul.
> > >
> > > Psychologically, it is difficult to withhold tips to which dealers
> > > feel entitled, but I'm overcoming that. Call me greedy, but I think
> > > that the whole dealer-tipping thing is based on the invalid concept
> > > that a won poker pot is "free money" to the winner. It's not. When
> > > you add up the overhead and opportunity costs, there is a lot of
> > > investment involved in that end-of-month withdrawal from the poker
> > > account. And of course, when you have a losing month, every dollar in
> > > tips only adds to the losses.
> >
> > You're one cheap son of a bitch. $1 a winning pot isn't gonna break you.
> > If you were at my table I'd have no problem telling you how cheap you are
> > to your face. I berate the players who don't tip and will always do it til
> > one of them decides to kick my ass.

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