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Creation of Professional Players "Theory"

 
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Russell Georgiev

External


Since: Aug 30, 2003
Posts: 5



(Msg. 1) Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2003 5:38 pm
Post subject: Creation of Professional Players "Theory"
Archived from groups: rec>gambling>poker (more info?)

Creation of professional poker players.

Most of the best professional poker players in history began their careers at
early ages. Starting a career early in one's life is a far more effective
means to achieving success. Looking back at most of the better
professional poker playing careers, you'll see the majority started playing at
a very
young age. Starting when you're young is very beneficial, it initially shows
you a made a choice on a career of your choosing. Simply stated this means you
choose the life you are about to start.

Poker has evolved greatly in the past couple of decades, some say for the
good while others will state something else. Regardless of the evolution,
starting your education at a young age in this occupation is a great asset if
you are to succeed. Many young players have a great edge over the majority of
older players, the major key is youth generally does not get the proper respect
it
is do. This is also a double edged sword as many young players don't deserve
any respect while many others do. Most older players have a difficult time
differentiating the abilities of the younger players, especially if the
younger players are more capable than those doing the judging.

Players starting at an early age in life have a much easier time learning the
game. The main reason being, they like the game and the life style it will
allow,
if a person is successful. Learning is easier when you're young as most
players approach the game from a timid position. The better players always
come from positions where they have to win, as losing is totally out of the
question. If they can't cut it the dream of being a professional player is
gone and reality sets in to dictate one had better get another occupation.

Most young players initially are not very local, they realize they need to
learn and the more they talk the less chance they have of learning.
Beginning young players start off playing a tight passive game, which evolves
into a tight aggressive game as a player learns more. As a young player gets
better
he gets a voice, he starts to talk,a sign he is progressing. Poker is a mental

game, thus allowing everyone a chance.

The evolution of a poker player goes through many stages. The beginning
stage is where the young player decides, this is what I want to do. The
player will learn through one of two ways, book education or just a card sense.
Much can be said about learning poker through books, yet how many true
professional poker players do you think ever read any books on poker? You
would have to say, card sense and common sense are a far better teacher than
any book. Do you realize there were few if any books on poker theory prior to
around 1980. This fact alone shows most of the older if not all of the older
professionals must have learned to play by methods other than reading books.

Books on poker can only teach you the basics. At this point and time the
books haven't been written that will take you beyond the primary
introductions to the game of poker. The books of today lack theory, they come
toward you with mathematical jargon that is essentially not that prevalent to
the game of poker. Statistical analysis of certain situations of the game are
fine, yet in the final analysis what do they do for you? Knowing a certain
combination of
cards will win a certain percentage of the time, with a certain percentage of
players is fine. The problem is, this is not what poker is about. Poker is
about people, it's about playing people, it's about reading people, it's
about out betting people. Do the books define these situations? Books can get
you to a certain point in a game, after this point you're on your own.

The next stage of a young professional poker players ascension into the
higher ranks or hierarchy of the game means you must master the hardest game
of all, the short game. The short game is better known as the short handed
game
and this is the arena where all professionals must meet sooner or later in
order
to succeed. I doubt a single professional player ever started out
playing in shorthanded games. In order to evolve to the next plateau, one must
first be able to beat the basic ring game, otherwise known as a full game.
After
mastering and being able to beat a full game the player can then proceed to
that next plateau, the short handed game.

Tournament poker has taken over the industry, yet how can you succeed as a
tournament champion without being able to play short handed games? Most
people's problems in poker today is their inability to properly adjust to
hand conditions as players are deleted from tables. Hand values keep changing
and
having the ability to adjust to these situations is the key. Many players make
it to
the final few tables, weakness being the lack of ability to finish the
opposition when the tables get short handed. At this point they encounter
aggressive styles they have no defense for. In poker a good offense is far
superior to a good defense. A combination of the two is very devastating.
Books cannot
provide you with the answers to these situations, these must be learned by
trial and error. The person making the better adjustments will succeed.

No limit tournament poker is the in thing at this time. Many people are
probably not aware there are several stages to multitable no limit
tournaments. You have your beginning or early stage with small blinds and
large stacks. This is a position few players have ever mastered, I am speaking
of the best players in the world also. The beginning of a no limit tournament
is more
like a pot limit game. Pot limit poker is a game few players have really
mastered.
Though many may say the beginning of a tournament doesn't matter, a quality
player really has a decisive edge at this point. Until the blinds go up the
pot
limit player can maneuver his way into a chip advantage, knowing most players
don't realize the early stages of a no limit poker tournament are far more
suited to a pot limit players game. Some players have their own theories on the

beginning stages of no limit tournaments. Many think it is wrong if they go
out in one the early stages. The problem with this thought process is to win
you
still must beat everyone. Playing correctly in lower stages of no limit
tournaments with pot limit experience can put you into some fantastic
situations to double up. Ignoring these situations where you can have players
drawing at two card outs is ludicrous. Do you think putting your money into the
pot having flopped a set against an over pair is not a situation to invest all
your
money in, whether you win or you don't? This is a reason certain players wait
until the blinds get higher before they get involved in this game. They lack
the
skills at all levels of this tournament. Lacking the skills at all levels of
the tournament equates to lacking skills in cash game poker.

This is why cash game poker players are dominant. They can play pot limit,
no limit, limit and shorthanded, something most tournament players lack.
Have you ever watched some of these no limit tournaments and the bets these
people make? Have you watched these people looking at these people after big
bets have been made? I know the standard answer is these players are looking
for tells from the players who bet. In reality few players at these levels have

any tells and those looking really are just thinking, actually you may as well
call it guessing.

If they guess right, their brilliant, if they guess wrong, well I just made a
mistake. This works in tournaments, it won't cut it in cash games. I've
discussed the all in bet. This is a powerful bet if properly used, problem
is few know how to properly use it. The all in bet should be used in many
situations, key situations being when you don't have enough for two bets or
your opposition has too small a stack. When I state you don't have enough for
two bets, this means if you raise the amount of the blinds three to five times,
you must have enough to bet the size of the pot on your next bet. If you can't
do this, bet your whole stack. Putting your whole stack in cuts your opponents
options.
He only has call or fold now. The other position is when an opponent is short
stacked. This is another position you may consider going all in. This makes it

definite for the player calling all in, as he has to win or he is out.

Another option players may consider when they get short stacked is stealing
the blinds. This is where going all in is also a help. Some people are
under the assumption it is best to wait for hand. Others have different
opinions,
those stealing blinds by going all in find a powerful weapon, especially
if used in the right way and time. When short stacked in a
tournament the worst places to steal the blinds are, number one,
first under the gun. Number two is on the button. These are the positions
most people attempt to steal from. Maybe you were not aware of this, but you
are now. All you have to do now is observe. You'll see more weak hands from
short stacked players in these two positions that any other positions.

I recommend a riskier steal attempt in one way, but far less risky in another
way. You get more respect as to the strength of your hand from any position
other that first under the gun or the button. Small stacks just have a
tendency to stealing in these positions, whether they know it or not. Just
plain and simple observation will prove my point.

The weakness in most people's no limit tournament game is the failure to know
how effective betting all in is when you are short stacked. Sometimes when
the blinds get large enough, consider doing it a couple of times in a row. I
promise you'll have more success stealing than waiting for hand. Stealing
is also beneficial when you need to accumulate chips. Many people have a
weakness of believing on waiting for hands to appear. I prefer stealing to
waiting for hand. A person should always be aware of the clock or the time
the blinds will be going up. Plan in advance for this, know where you'll be,
know the most opportune time to attempt stealing.

Get your mind geared up to a different standard of play than you are
used to. In theory, high stakes poker in pot limit or no limit is about
pairs, plain and simple pairs. If you think small pairs are going to win you
tournaments better get some circuit adjustments. Small pairs are basically a
tool for stealing when the game gets short or you are short stacked. By making
a move or going all in with a small pair with a small stack you guarantee
yourself a
coin flip decision provided the opposition does not hold a higher pair.
Calling large bets or all in bets with small pairs is theoretically suicidal.
And
many of you had better learn AK must be folded more often than you may think
especially if back raised all in, on certain situations.

You can be as good at math as a professor, yet all the math skills you have
won't help you one iota against a superior bettor and hand reader. In order
for you to succeed and advance to a higher plateau in poker you must put
yourself into your opponents mind. You must think in this matter, what would
you do if you did have the hand? Then think, what would you do if you didn't
have
the hand? Then put yourself into that position and think of what the
opposition
is doing. Imagine this scenario, flop comes KK2. You have just raised the
pot four times the big blind and the big blind called. You hold AK, AQ or JJ
or possibly you are trying to steal with a XX. How would you play this hand?
If
you had AK, would you bet on the flop? If you had any of the other hands,
would you bet on the flop? Would your opponent expect you to bet on the
flop, especially with a flop of KK2? If you think about a hand like this
you'll
understand you're far better off checking on the flop no matter which hand
you hold. The thought of you holding AK would definitely be in the mind of the

opposition. Checking it wouldn't do anything but help you, especially if you
didn't hold the AK this time. After the next card hits the board now you can
make
your play. Obviously the opposition may bet, but in practicality there is no
reason for him to bet. He realizes you may be trapping and a bet is an
almost 100% guarantee in your position, so why should he bet? You will either
bet because you have something, or bet to steal, thus if he does hold a hand,
he's far better off check raising or calling in case you are bluffing. Just in
case
he did call with the weaker hand, it's highly likely he will lay it down if you
make
a pot size bet.

Again betting is the key, knowing when, knowing how much. NL and PL are
power games. Bets must be adequate to equate to pot sizes and flop
possibilities. Anything less is usually an absolute giveaway to your holdings.
When you steal realize it is far more than a one bet process, unless you just
go all in.

www.pokermafia.com coming soon

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Strik9

External


Since: Sep 29, 2003
Posts: 26



(Msg. 2) Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2003 5:38 pm
Post subject: Re: Creation of Professional Players "Theory" [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

And yet another great post.
This is how you tell the real Russ from the imposters.
Looking forward to www.pokermafia.com


-Strik9


"Russell Georgiev" <russellgeorgiev DeleteThis @aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030929133824.06822.00000009@mb-m20.aol.com...
> Creation of professional poker players.
>
> Most of the best professional poker players in history began their careers
at
> early ages. Starting a career early in one's life is a far more effective
> means to achieving success. Looking back at most of the better
> professional poker playing careers, you'll see the majority started
playing at
> a very
> young age. Starting when you're young is very beneficial, it initially
shows
> you a made a choice on a career of your choosing. Simply stated this
means you
> choose the life you are about to start.
>
> Poker has evolved greatly in the past couple of decades, some say for the
> good while others will state something else. Regardless of the evolution,
> starting your education at a young age in this occupation is a great asset
if
> you are to succeed. Many young players have a great edge over the
majority of
> older players, the major key is youth generally does not get the proper
respect
> it
> is do. This is also a double edged sword as many young players don't
deserve
> any respect while many others do. Most older players have a difficult
time
> differentiating the abilities of the younger players, especially if the
> younger players are more capable than those doing the judging.
>
> Players starting at an early age in life have a much easier time learning
the
> game. The main reason being, they like the game and the life style it will
> allow,
> if a person is successful. Learning is easier when you're young as most
> players approach the game from a timid position. The better players
always
> come from positions where they have to win, as losing is totally out of
the
> question. If they can't cut it the dream of being a professional player
is
> gone and reality sets in to dictate one had better get another occupation.
>
> Most young players initially are not very local, they realize they need to
> learn and the more they talk the less chance they have of learning.
> Beginning young players start off playing a tight passive game, which
evolves
> into a tight aggressive game as a player learns more. As a young player
gets
> better
> he gets a voice, he starts to talk,a sign he is progressing. Poker is a
mental
>
> game, thus allowing everyone a chance.
>
> The evolution of a poker player goes through many stages. The beginning
> stage is where the young player decides, this is what I want to do. The
> player will learn through one of two ways, book education or just a card
sense.
> Much can be said about learning poker through books, yet how many true
> professional poker players do you think ever read any books on poker? You
> would have to say, card sense and common sense are a far better teacher
than
> any book. Do you realize there were few if any books on poker theory
prior to
> around 1980. This fact alone shows most of the older if not all of the
older
> professionals must have learned to play by methods other than reading
books.
>
> Books on poker can only teach you the basics. At this point and time the
> books haven't been written that will take you beyond the primary
> introductions to the game of poker. The books of today lack theory, they
come
> toward you with mathematical jargon that is essentially not that prevalent
to
> the game of poker. Statistical analysis of certain situations of the game
are
> fine, yet in the final analysis what do they do for you? Knowing a
certain
> combination of
> cards will win a certain percentage of the time, with a certain percentage
of
> players is fine. The problem is, this is not what poker is about. Poker
is
> about people, it's about playing people, it's about reading people, it's
> about out betting people. Do the books define these situations? Books can
get
> you to a certain point in a game, after this point you're on your own.
>
> The next stage of a young professional poker players ascension into the
> higher ranks or hierarchy of the game means you must master the hardest
game
> of all, the short game. The short game is better known as the short
handed
> game
> and this is the arena where all professionals must meet sooner or later in
> order
> to succeed. I doubt a single professional player ever started out
> playing in shorthanded games. In order to evolve to the next plateau, one
must
> first be able to beat the basic ring game, otherwise known as a full game.
> After
> mastering and being able to beat a full game the player can then proceed
to
> that next plateau, the short handed game.
>
> Tournament poker has taken over the industry, yet how can you succeed as a
> tournament champion without being able to play short handed games? Most
> people's problems in poker today is their inability to properly adjust to
> hand conditions as players are deleted from tables. Hand values keep
changing
> and
> having the ability to adjust to these situations is the key. Many players
make
> it to
> the final few tables, weakness being the lack of ability to finish the
> opposition when the tables get short handed. At this point they encounter
> aggressive styles they have no defense for. In poker a good offense is
far
> superior to a good defense. A combination of the two is very devastating.
> Books cannot
> provide you with the answers to these situations, these must be learned by
> trial and error. The person making the better adjustments will succeed.
>
> No limit tournament poker is the in thing at this time. Many people are
> probably not aware there are several stages to multitable no limit
> tournaments. You have your beginning or early stage with small blinds and
> large stacks. This is a position few players have ever mastered, I am
speaking
> of the best players in the world also. The beginning of a no limit
tournament
> is more
> like a pot limit game. Pot limit poker is a game few players have really
> mastered.
> Though many may say the beginning of a tournament doesn't matter, a
quality
> player really has a decisive edge at this point. Until the blinds go up
the
> pot
> limit player can maneuver his way into a chip advantage, knowing most
players
> don't realize the early stages of a no limit poker tournament are far more
> suited to a pot limit players game. Some players have their own theories
on the
>
> beginning stages of no limit tournaments. Many think it is wrong if they
go
> out in one the early stages. The problem with this thought process is to
win
> you
> still must beat everyone. Playing correctly in lower stages of no limit
> tournaments with pot limit experience can put you into some fantastic
> situations to double up. Ignoring these situations where you can have
players
> drawing at two card outs is ludicrous. Do you think putting your money
into the
> pot having flopped a set against an over pair is not a situation to invest
all
> your
> money in, whether you win or you don't? This is a reason certain players
wait
> until the blinds get higher before they get involved in this game. They
lack
> the
> skills at all levels of this tournament. Lacking the skills at all levels
of
> the tournament equates to lacking skills in cash game poker.
>
> This is why cash game poker players are dominant. They can play pot
limit,
> no limit, limit and shorthanded, something most tournament players lack.
> Have you ever watched some of these no limit tournaments and the bets
these
> people make? Have you watched these people looking at these people after
big
> bets have been made? I know the standard answer is these players are
looking
> for tells from the players who bet. In reality few players at these levels
have
>
> any tells and those looking really are just thinking, actually you may as
well
> call it guessing.
>
> If they guess right, their brilliant, if they guess wrong, well I just
made a
> mistake. This works in tournaments, it won't cut it in cash games. I've
> discussed the all in bet. This is a powerful bet if properly used,
problem
> is few know how to properly use it. The all in bet should be used in many
> situations, key situations being when you don't have enough for two bets
or
> your opposition has too small a stack. When I state you don't have enough
for
> two bets, this means if you raise the amount of the blinds three to five
times,
> you must have enough to bet the size of the pot on your next bet. If you
can't
> do this, bet your whole stack. Putting your whole stack in cuts your
opponents
> options.
> He only has call or fold now. The other position is when an opponent is
short
> stacked. This is another position you may consider going all in. This
makes it
>
> definite for the player calling all in, as he has to win or he is out.
>
> Another option players may consider when they get short stacked is
stealing
> the blinds. This is where going all in is also a help. Some people are
> under the assumption it is best to wait for hand. Others have different
> opinions,
> those stealing blinds by going all in find a powerful weapon, especially
> if used in the right way and time. When short stacked in a
> tournament the worst places to steal the blinds are, number one,
> first under the gun. Number two is on the button. These are the
positions
> most people attempt to steal from. Maybe you were not aware of this, but
you
> are now. All you have to do now is observe. You'll see more weak hands
from
> short stacked players in these two positions that any other positions.
>
> I recommend a riskier steal attempt in one way, but far less risky in
another
> way. You get more respect as to the strength of your hand from any
position
> other that first under the gun or the button. Small stacks just have a
> tendency to stealing in these positions, whether they know it or not.
Just
> plain and simple observation will prove my point.
>
> The weakness in most people's no limit tournament game is the failure to
know
> how effective betting all in is when you are short stacked. Sometimes
when
> the blinds get large enough, consider doing it a couple of times in a row.
I
> promise you'll have more success stealing than waiting for hand. Stealing
> is also beneficial when you need to accumulate chips. Many people have a
> weakness of believing on waiting for hands to appear. I prefer stealing
to
> waiting for hand. A person should always be aware of the clock or the
time
> the blinds will be going up. Plan in advance for this, know where you'll
be,
> know the most opportune time to attempt stealing.
>
> Get your mind geared up to a different standard of play than you are
> used to. In theory, high stakes poker in pot limit or no limit is about
> pairs, plain and simple pairs. If you think small pairs are going to win
you
> tournaments better get some circuit adjustments. Small pairs are
basically a
> tool for stealing when the game gets short or you are short stacked. By
making
> a move or going all in with a small pair with a small stack you guarantee
> yourself a
> coin flip decision provided the opposition does not hold a higher pair.
> Calling large bets or all in bets with small pairs is theoretically
suicidal.
> And
> many of you had better learn AK must be folded more often than you may
think
> especially if back raised all in, on certain situations.
>
> You can be as good at math as a professor, yet all the math skills you
have
> won't help you one iota against a superior bettor and hand reader. In
order
> for you to succeed and advance to a higher plateau in poker you must put
> yourself into your opponents mind. You must think in this matter, what
would
> you do if you did have the hand? Then think, what would you do if you
didn't
> have
> the hand? Then put yourself into that position and think of what the
> opposition
> is doing. Imagine this scenario, flop comes KK2. You have just raised
the
> pot four times the big blind and the big blind called. You hold AK, AQ or
JJ
> or possibly you are trying to steal with a XX. How would you play this
hand?
> If
> you had AK, would you bet on the flop? If you had any of the other hands,
> would you bet on the flop? Would your opponent expect you to bet on the
> flop, especially with a flop of KK2? If you think about a hand like this
> you'll
> understand you're far better off checking on the flop no matter which hand
> you hold. The thought of you holding AK would definitely be in the mind
of the
>
> opposition. Checking it wouldn't do anything but help you, especially if
you
> didn't hold the AK this time. After the next card hits the board now you
can
> make
> your play. Obviously the opposition may bet, but in practicality there is
no
> reason for him to bet. He realizes you may be trapping and a bet is an
> almost 100% guarantee in your position, so why should he bet? You will
either
> bet because you have something, or bet to steal, thus if he does hold a
hand,
> he's far better off check raising or calling in case you are bluffing.
Just in
> case
> he did call with the weaker hand, it's highly likely he will lay it down
if you
> make
> a pot size bet.
>
> Again betting is the key, knowing when, knowing how much. NL and PL are
> power games. Bets must be adequate to equate to pot sizes and flop
> possibilities. Anything less is usually an absolute giveaway to your
holdings.
> When you steal realize it is far more than a one bet process, unless you
just
> go all in.
>
> www.pokermafia.com coming soon

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accountant

External


Since: Jul 10, 2003
Posts: 70



(Msg. 3) Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2003 4:48 am
Post subject: Re: Creation of Professional Players "Theory" [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

The better players always
> come from positions where they have to win, as losing is totally out of the
> question. If they can't cut it the dream of being a professional player is
> gone and reality sets in to dictate one had better get another occupation.
>

This part applies directly to me. It's what drove me to become better. I
had to either start winning or quit...

I so dreaded the possibility of giving up poker and facing a real job for
life I have put everything I have into becoming a great player. In the
meantime, my bankroll has gotten pretty healthy, and I continue to play /
study / improve.

In the meantime I have a full-time job, and everything I make is growing
my bankroll. Thus far it seems a very effective approach. I don't think
this would have been possible for me, had I been already married / and /
or had children. I'm still pretty young so your analysis seems to apply
in my situation.

Interesting read, although I think you underestimate the value of books
to a very bright person such as myself. I agree short handed / experience
are necessary as you say, but the information available from sources such
as yourself is invaluable.

_________________________________________________________________
Posted using RecPoker.com - http://www.recpoker.com
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