Hand Analysis

You called the raise with the KQ and hit your K on the turn.  Folding there
isn't an option given the action.  The only question is whether or not you
should checkraise in an effort to get him to lay down AK or get payoff from
small blind with lesser hand.  If it's reraised after your checkraise I think
you can fold.

results?



On Nov 10 2007 10:33 AM, Wacky wrote:

> 40/80 3-handed @ Oceans-11
>
> Button raises, SB calls, I have KQh in the BB. I call.
>
> Flop comes 2 2 4, 2 diamonds 1 heart.
> Check-Check-Bet-Call-Call
>
> Turn is a Kc.
>
> Check-Check-Bet-Call-Call
>
> River is 9h
>
> Check-Check-Bet-Call-?
>
> Button reveals As and says don't call unless you can beat ace-king, before
> SB calls.
>
> What's your play on the river? I'll discuss my thoughts and postmortem
> analysis after hearing what some of you have to say.
>
> Wacky
>
> http://wackypoker.blogspot.com/



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On Nov 10, 2:22�pm, Mark Warren <43083....TakeThisOut@recpoker.com> wrote:
> You called the raise with the KQ and hit your K on the turn.  Folding there
> isn't an option given the action.  The only question is whether or not you
> should checkraise in an effort to get him to lay down AK or get payoff from
> small blind with lesser hand.  If it's reraised after your checkraise I think
> you can fold.

On what fricken planet do you live where the AK lays it down in this
situation?
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On Nov 10, 10:33 am, "Wacky" <jyh....DeleteThis@yahoo.com> wrote:
> 40/80 3-handed @ Oceans-11
>
> Button raises, SB calls, I have KQh in the BB. I call.
>
> Flop comes 2 2 4, 2 diamonds 1 heart.
> Check-Check-Bet-Call-Call


Should be Check-Check-Bet-Call-Fold....
(a little tight weak to be sure, but you really don't know what you
want to hit here, a pair might leave you behind to an overpair, a
better kicker, the SB's slowplayed deuce, etc.)


>
> Turn is a Kc.
>
> Check-Check-Bet-Call-Call


OK, so you get to here by calling the flop bet.
In that case, this should go Check-Bet-Call-Call, Check-Bet-Raise-Fold-
Call, or Check-Check-Bet-Call-Raise. Check/calling when you hit one
of your presumed outs is about as weak a play as I can imagine (and
I'm one of the world's biggest nits).


> River is 9h
>
> Check-Check-Bet-Call-?
>
> Button reveals As and says don't call unless you can beat ace-king, before
> SB calls.
>
> What's your play on the river? I'll discuss my thoughts and postmortem
> analysis after hearing what some of you have to say.
>
> Wacky
>
> http://wackypoker.blogspot.com/
>
> ----
> RecGroups : the community-oriented newsreader :www.recgroups.com


You have to call now. The 9 didn't help him at all, and you close the
action. A raise isn't going to get any action from a hand you beat
(unless the SB gets stubborn with a weaker king). I agree with Fell,
the button's either got A2 or nothing. All in all, I think you played
the hand like crap, but you probably lucked your way into the best
hand.

Michael
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On Nov 11 2007 1:03 AM, phlash74 wrote:

> On Nov 10, 10:33 am, "Wacky" <jyh....TakeThisOut@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > 40/80 3-handed @ Oceans-11
> >
> > Button raises, SB calls, I have KQh in the BB. I call.
> >
> > Flop comes 2 2 4, 2 diamonds 1 heart.
> > Check-Check-Bet-Call-Call
>
>
> Should be Check-Check-Bet-Call-Fold....
> (a little tight weak to be sure, but you really don't know what you
> want to hit here, a pair might leave you behind to an overpair, a
> better kicker, the SB's slowplayed deuce, etc.)

Maybe I should have been a little clearer. There was a total of 3 players
in the game, not just this hand. We were playing 3-handed for quite a
while. I think folding here on the flop is a mistake. If I'm willing to
call pre-flop, I need to call on quite a few flops even when I miss in
order to keep the button from stealing relentlessly from me. Standard
short-handed play in my opinion. I have the button on anywhere from Ax,
two pictures, suited connectors, pocket pair down to 5s and posssibly
pocket 3's. i.e. a very large range.


>
>
> >
> > Turn is a Kc.
> >
> > Check-Check-Bet-Call-Call
>
>
> OK, so you get to here by calling the flop bet.
> In that case, this should go Check-Bet-Call-Call, Check-Bet-Raise-Fold-
> Call, or Check-Check-Bet-Call-Raise. Check/calling when you hit one
> of your presumed outs is about as weak a play as I can imagine (and
> I'm one of the world's biggest nits).


Here is where I made the first mistake on the hand. I hit the turn card,
and then just called when the SB didn't raise the button bet. If the SB
was slow playing the 2, he's going to raise here. My call is so
weak-tight looking back on it I can't believe I did that, and normally I
am very aggressive, especially short-handed. A raise here serves two
purposes, if I am ahead it's a value raise, if I'm behind I should get
re-raised by the button and can fold. Calling is the least attractive
option.

>
>
> > River is 9h
> >
> > Check-Check-Bet-Call-?
> >
> > Button reveals As and says don't call unless you can beat ace-king, before
> > SB calls.
> >
> > What's your play on the river? I'll discuss my thoughts and postmortem
> > analysis after hearing what some of you have to say.
> >
> > Wacky
> >
> > http://wackypoker.blogspot.com/
> >
> You have to call now. The 9 didn't help him at all, and you close the
> action. A raise isn't going to get any action from a hand you beat
> (unless the SB gets stubborn with a weaker king). I agree with Fell,
> the button's either got A2 or nothing. All in all, I think you played
> the hand like crap, but you probably lucked your way into the best
> hand.

Mistake #2 in the hand by me. I folded the river. I thought through the
hand and how the button played it, and I thought it was consistent with
pocket aces and or ace/king. At the time I thought he was trying to
induce a call from one us, even though he exposed a card. He's done that
in the past with a monster, so I thought me might be doing it again. So
after the SB calls, I really hate overcalling even with top-pair 2nd
kicker, given that I think I'm beat. If SB folds for sure I call.
Anyways, Button asks if SB has a pair, SB nods affirmatively, button
mucks, SB tables 79d, which flopped a flush draw and hit a pair on the
river.

So in retrospect I played the hand terribly and made a huge mistake on the
river by not calling. Even if I'm right about the button's hand, the
almost 10:1 odds I'm getting on the river to call, should have forced me
to just pay off the button's hand.

Wacky
http://wackypoker.blogspot.com/

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On Nov 11, 7:33 am, "Wacky" <jyh....RemoveThis@yahoo.com> wrote:
> 40/80 3-handed @ Oceans-11
> Button raises, SB calls, I have KQh in the BB. I call.
>
> Flop comes 2 2 4, 2 diamonds 1 heart.
> Check-Check-Bet-Call-Call
>
> Turn is a Kc.
> Check-Check-Bet-Call-Call
>
> River is 9h
> Check-Check-Bet-Call-?

Look, I don't know anything about poker. But you got a
perfect turn and the river didn't help anyone, how can you
possibly justify a fold here ? If you are going to fold this
then logically you should fold the flop ... given that you
will fold even when you get almost the best possible
turn and river.
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On Nov 11, 8:49 am, "Wacky" <jyh....DeleteThis@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Nov 11 2007 1:03 AM, phlash74 wrote:
>
> > On Nov 10, 10:33 am, "Wacky" <jyh....DeleteThis@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > 40/80 3-handed @ Oceans-11
>
> > > Button raises, SB calls, I have KQh in the BB. I call.
>
> > > Flop comes 2 2 4, 2 diamonds 1 heart.
> > > Check-Check-Bet-Call-Call
>
> > Should be Check-Check-Bet-Call-Fold....
> > (a little tight weak to be sure, but you really don't know what you
> > want to hit here, a pair might leave you behind to an overpair, a
> > better kicker, the SB's slowplayed deuce, etc.)
>
> Maybe I should have been a little clearer. There was a total of 3 players
> in the game, not just this hand. We were playing 3-handed for quite a
> while. I think folding here on the flop is a mistake. If I'm willing to
> call pre-flop, I need to call on quite a few flops even when I miss in
> order to keep the button from stealing relentlessly from me. Standard
> short-handed play in my opinion. I have the button on anywhere from Ax,
> two pictures, suited connectors, pocket pair down to 5s and posssibly
> pocket 3's. i.e. a very large range.


D'oh! My bad, I should have noticed you put 3 handed BEFORE the hand
in question. Obviously, that changes things quite a bit. At a full
table, I'd call a button open raise with KQs in the BB all day. Three
handed, I'd almost certainly reraise here. You're very likely to have
the best hand preflop on high card strength alone, let alone the
suitedness and connectedness. But anyway, we'll go with a call....


>
>
>
> > > Turn is a Kc.
>
> > > Check-Check-Bet-Call-Call
>
> > OK, so you get to here by calling the flop bet.
> > In that case, this should go Check-Bet-Call-Call, Check-Bet-Raise-Fold-
> > Call, or Check-Check-Bet-Call-Raise. Check/calling when you hit one
> > of your presumed outs is about as weak a play as I can imagine (and
> > I'm one of the world's biggest nits).
>
> Here is where I made the first mistake on the hand. I hit the turn card,
> and then just called when the SB didn't raise the button bet. If the SB
> was slow playing the 2, he's going to raise here. My call is so
> weak-tight looking back on it I can't believe I did that, and normally I
> am very aggressive, especially short-handed. A raise here serves two
> purposes, if I am ahead it's a value raise, if I'm behind I should get
> re-raised by the button and can fold. Calling is the least attractive
> option.


No doubt. I don't mind calling the flop if you want to let the button
keep the lead, but when you hit here, you either lead out or
checkraise. I prefer betting here if he wants to continue a bluff or
keep betting the best hand. I'd just call a raise and check/call the
river.


>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > > River is 9h
>
> > > Check-Check-Bet-Call-?
>
> > > Button reveals As and says don't call unless you can beat ace-king, before
> > > SB calls.
>
> > > What's your play on the river? I'll discuss my thoughts and postmortem
> > > analysis after hearing what some of you have to say.
>
> > > Wacky
>
> > >http://wackypoker.blogspot.com/
>
> > You have to call now. The 9 didn't help him at all, and you close the
> > action. A raise isn't going to get any action from a hand you beat
> > (unless the SB gets stubborn with a weaker king). I agree with Fell,
> > the button's either got A2 or nothing. All in all, I think you played
> > the hand like crap, but you probably lucked your way into the best
> > hand.
>
> Mistake #2 in the hand by me. I folded the river. I thought through the
> hand and how the button played it, and I thought it was consistent with
> pocket aces and or ace/king. At the time I thought he was trying to
> induce a call from one us, even though he exposed a card. He's done that
> in the past with a monster, so I thought me might be doing it again. So
> after the SB calls, I really hate overcalling even with top-pair 2nd
> kicker, given that I think I'm beat. If SB folds for sure I call.
> Anyways, Button asks if SB has a pair, SB nods affirmatively, button
> mucks, SB tables 79d, which flopped a flush draw and hit a pair on the
> river.
>
> So in retrospect I played the hand terribly and made a huge mistake on the
> river by not calling. Even if I'm right about the button's hand, the
> almost 10:1 odds I'm getting on the river to call, should have forced me
> to just pay off the button's hand.
>
> Wackyhttp://wackypoker.blogspot.com/
>
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>
> - Show quoted text -



Absolutely, especially since you close the action. Even if he didn't
show the ace, you know for damn sure the 9 didn't help him any. If
you were in the middle, you might be able to justify a fold if you
thought the third player would raise. Here, it's an obvious call. If
you had missed the turn, you wouldn't have had the odds to call for
the river and so wouldn't have to think about calling with K high. If
it's any consolation, the button played the hand like crap. No way he
can expect two players to fold the river for one bet that have come
this far. One might be on the naked flush draw, but the other almost
certainly has to have two pair. Live and learn.

Michael
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