Net worth of top professional poker players

On Mar 28, 4:47 am, "browser" <browser2....DeleteThis@yahoo.com> wrote:
> After watching shows like High Stakes Poker, and reading accounts of the big
> cash games, I was wondering if the top poker pros are all millionaires, or
> worth tens of millions, like the top pros in professional sports.  It would
> seem that you would have to be in order to be able to routinely play in
> poker games that have pots worth hundreds of thousands of dollars.  It
> wouldn't take too many bad beats to run through a million or two in no time.
> So are most of the most well known players very wealthy, so that these games
> represent a relatively small percentage of their net worth, or is it more
> like they are always on the edge, gambling with all the money they have, and
> all their cash is tied up in their bankroll, rather than in all the
> trappings of wealth that multimillionaires usually have?  Or I guess the
> other possibility is that they mostly play on other peoples money, if they
> have backers.
>
> There are also a lot of accounts of pros borrowing money from each other.
> So for most, is it a case of win millions, lose millions, so the net comes
> out pretty much a wash, or do you think that the top pros actually clear
> millions in profits each year?  Anybody have any info on this?
>
> Thanks.

I've wondered the same thing. You can see for example, in Esfandiari's
eyes when he talks about money that he wishes he had a lot more of it.
As a pro if you win 1 Million in a tourney, that's 100 buy-ins to big
big tourneys, factor in all the tourneys you didn't cash in that year,
if someone has a piece of you, tourneys that you did cash in, but
either broke even or booked a loss due to expenses etc. and you start
to realize that these guys really aren't buying their own private
islands.

I would highly, HIGHLY doubt that there is a pro worth in excess of 5
Million from almost strictly poker (some investments, no hugely
profitable side business, no sponsorship deals), hell, i doubt there
are many worth more than 2 Million from poker alone. It's kind of like
the Powerball or Megabucks, sure they have that sign that says someone
bought the $1.2 Million winning ticket at your local convenience
store, but they don't say that the guy took the lump sum for $390K,
paid off his house, his kid's college education, bought a nice Caddy,
and had enough left to go to Florida every winter and stay in an
average condo.

http://www.cardplayer.com/players/results/Gavin-Griffin/3746

That's Gavin Griffin's player bio, the kid is my age and has
absolutely killed it in the last 12 months. If you run extremely well
as a pro you MIGHT have a year almost as good as this kid's had. Even
still, you can never keep that pace up. Look up Johnny Chan, he's got
5 Million in lifetime earnings, not much over at least 20 years,
Cloutier has 9 Million in 23 years...take into account expenses and
events they didn't cash in and you see that the top tier of
professionals is not even close to clearing millions a year on
average. That being said, if they're in the black on tourneys and play
cash games with any frequency i'm sure they're making a better living
than most, just not buying their own private islands.
 >> Stay informed about: Net worth of top professional poker players 

On Mar 28 2008 3:47 AM, browser wrote:

> After watching shows like High Stakes Poker, and reading accounts of the big
> cash games, I was wondering if the top poker pros are all millionaires, or
> worth tens of millions, like the top pros in professional sports. It would
> seem that you would have to be in order to be able to routinely play in
> poker games that have pots worth hundreds of thousands of dollars. It
> wouldn't take too many bad beats to run through a million or two in no time.
> So are most of the most well known players very wealthy, so that these games
> represent a relatively small percentage of their net worth, or is it more
> like they are always on the edge, gambling with all the money they have, and
> all their cash is tied up in their bankroll, rather than in all the
> trappings of wealth that multimillionaires usually have? Or I guess the
> other possibility is that they mostly play on other peoples money, if they
> have backers.
>
> There are also a lot of accounts of pros borrowing money from each other.
> So for most, is it a case of win millions, lose millions, so the net comes
> out pretty much a wash, or do you think that the top pros actually clear
> millions in profits each year? Anybody have any info on this?
>
> Thanks.

The answer varies widely by pro. In theory, to stay in action in
something like the big game (usually played 2000/4000) you would need
about 2 million in bankroll or about 500 big bets. Very few big pros have
that much cash readily on tap. Instead they borrow from/stake each other
and play with shorter rolls. I would guess many of them probably have
about 100 big bets on hand, so if you figure a population of 10 big game
regulars, collectively they've got about 2 real bankrolls between them.

In addition to that, most of them have some additional liquid assets that
could be directed at poker. Not as much as you might think for some of
them though. The longer time pros like Doyle, Chip (before he passed),
Jennifer, Patrik, and Barry probably have somewhat more - they're the
millionaires you're looking for. A few like Benyamine are broke outside
of poker (and in his case, broke at poker too but staked).

The big game losers don't have a bankroll per se - just money they can
afford to lose. You can spot them because they have outside income -
Sammy, Lyle, Eli etc.

Wayne Vinson
http://cardsharp.org
Wayne (dot) Vinson (at) gmail (dot) com

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"Omaha Chris" <cpsaros.RemoveThis@NOSPAMgmail.com> wrote in message
news:fsicb3017vi@enews2.newsguy.com...
> browser wrote:
>> After watching shows like High Stakes Poker, and reading accounts of the
>> big cash games, I was wondering if the top poker pros are all
>> millionaires, or worth tens of millions, like the top pros in
>> professional sports.
>
>
> From what I've gathered, pretty much everyone in poker is essentially
> broke, or worse.
>
> It's a huge tornado of borrowing and lending in massive sums, with the
> rake slowly, quietly swallowing it all.

Be patient bucko. No doubt Russ G. will weigh in on this one and give us
the "super dooper true inside, known only to him, top secret information".
Of course you'll have to listen to a bunch of thirty year old poker cheating
stories first.

Irish Mike
 >> Stay informed about: Net worth of top professional poker players 

The wealthy pro's are from the old school. Doyle must be worth at least
$100,000,000 if he's worth a dollar. Reese was worth in the same ball park.
Dewey Tomko is worth quite a lot, as is Billy Baxter. Dan Harrington has a
business and is well off.

Hellmuth is doing well as he was paid off to keep quite and his reward was
sponsorship. Being worth a million these days in that world is nothing, not
because of the money because of the frivilous ways these guys spend it.

Most are in bad financial shape. The cheats have the money and always have the
money. Most of the road cheats I know are millionaires and wouldn't bet a nickel
on a slot machine.

If online poker wasn't here, these guys would be playing 30-60 or scamming small
games. Guys like Steve Zolotow (stock market) don't count, as he was rich from
his NY days, not from poker. Sexton has blown most of his cash on sports.

I would say Hellmuth got the best deal of all these guys. Greenstein went from
5mph to about 60mph in a couple of years after joining the boys. Look who's
promoting the things on TV and who's playing.

The truth is most of these guys haven't anywhere near what you thing and many
are in debt. Phil Ivey leads the pack on who's best off at this time in the
younger generation.

The fact is the guys you don't know about (but I do) have the money. The ones
you see all the time are mostly broke and backed.

Russ Georgiev

http://www.pokerunchecked.com/
http://www.russgeorgiev.com/
http://www.pokermafia.com/
http://www.europokerschool.com/
http://www.worldclasscheating.com/

On Mar 28 2008 1:47 AM, browser wrote:

> After watching shows like High Stakes Poker, and reading accounts of the big
> cash games, I was wondering if the top poker pros are all millionaires, or
> worth tens of millions, like the top pros in professional sports. It would
> seem that you would have to be in order to be able to routinely play in
> poker games that have pots worth hundreds of thousands of dollars. It
> wouldn't take too many bad beats to run through a million or two in no time.
> So are most of the most well known players very wealthy, so that these games
> represent a relatively small percentage of their net worth, or is it more
> like they are always on the edge, gambling with all the money they have, and
> all their cash is tied up in their bankroll, rather than in all the
> trappings of wealth that multimillionaires usually have? Or I guess the
> other possibility is that they mostly play on other peoples money, if they
> have backers.
>
> There are also a lot of accounts of pros borrowing money from each other.
> So for most, is it a case of win millions, lose millions, so the net comes
> out pretty much a wash, or do you think that the top pros actually clear
> millions in profits each year? Anybody have any info on this?
>
> Thanks.



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 >> Stay informed about: Net worth of top professional poker players 

 
The poker players you see on TV did not make their money directly from playing.
Those that dounded full tilt poker have made more money than god.  I w3ould
guess the founders have all made at least 100 million each.
Most of the people that make money from playing you will never hear about.
In 2002 most of the present day super stars were playing in $300 buy in
tournaments trying to make it.
TV and online poker is where the money came from not playing poker.  Just think
about how much FTP makes in rake each day.

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"Wayne Vinson" <a7a88fc DeleteThis @webnntp.invalid> wrote in message
news:jakvb5x33c.ln2@recgroups.com...
> On Mar 28 2008 3:47 AM, browser wrote:
>
>> After watching shows like High Stakes Poker, and reading accounts of the
>> big
>> cash games, I was wondering if the top poker pros are all millionaires,
>> or
>> worth tens of millions, like the top pros in professional sports. It
>> would
>> seem that you would have to be in order to be able to routinely play in
>> poker games that have pots worth hundreds of thousands of dollars. It
>> wouldn't take too many bad beats to run through a million or two in no
>> time.
>> So are most of the most well known players very wealthy, so that these
>> games
>> represent a relatively small percentage of their net worth, or is it more
>> like they are always on the edge, gambling with all the money they have,
>> and
>> all their cash is tied up in their bankroll, rather than in all the
>> trappings of wealth that multimillionaires usually have? Or I guess the
>> other possibility is that they mostly play on other peoples money, if
>> they
>> have backers.
>>
>> There are also a lot of accounts of pros borrowing money from each other.
>> So for most, is it a case of win millions, lose millions, so the net
>> comes
>> out pretty much a wash, or do you think that the top pros actually clear
>> millions in profits each year? Anybody have any info on this?
>>
>> Thanks.
>
> The answer varies widely by pro. In theory, to stay in action in
> something like the big game (usually played 2000/4000) you would need
> about 2 million in bankroll or about 500 big bets. Very few big pros have
> that much cash readily on tap. Instead they borrow from/stake each other
> and play with shorter rolls. I would guess many of them probably have
> about 100 big bets on hand, so if you figure a population of 10 big game
> regulars, collectively they've got about 2 real bankrolls between them.
>
> In addition to that, most of them have some additional liquid assets that
> could be directed at poker. Not as much as you might think for some of
> them though. The longer time pros like Doyle, Chip (before he passed),
> Jennifer, Patrik, and Barry probably have somewhat more - they're the
> millionaires you're looking for. A few like Benyamine are broke outside
> of poker (and in his case, broke at poker too but staked).
>
> The big game losers don't have a bankroll per se - just money they can
> afford to lose. You can spot them because they have outside income -
> Sammy, Lyle, Eli etc.
>
> Wayne Vinson
> http://cardsharp.org
> Wayne (dot) Vinson (at) gmail (dot) com

I've heard Helmuth say a couple of times that he has $20 million. However,
I agree with Wayne. If it wasn't for online poker, and the associated
endorsements, I think a large percentage of today's poker super stars would
be kicking around in low stakes tournaments and ring games. And, regardless
of the money they have today, I think there's a good chance the really heavy
gamblers like Phil Ivy and Eric Lindgren will ultimately end up broke.

Irish Mike
>
> ---
> RecGroups : the community-oriented newsreader : www.recgroups.com
>
>
 >> Stay informed about: Net worth of top professional poker players 

On Mar 28 2008 8:16 PM, Irish Mike wrote:

> "Wayne Vinson" wrote in message
> news:jakvb5x33c.ln2@recgroups.com...
> > On Mar 28 2008 3:47 AM, browser wrote:
> >
> >> After watching shows like High Stakes Poker, and reading accounts of the
> >> big
> >> cash games, I was wondering if the top poker pros are all millionaires,
> >> or
> >> worth tens of millions, like the top pros in professional sports. It
> >> would
> >> seem that you would have to be in order to be able to routinely play in
> >> poker games that have pots worth hundreds of thousands of dollars. It
> >> wouldn't take too many bad beats to run through a million or two in no
> >> time.
> >> So are most of the most well known players very wealthy, so that these
> >> games
> >> represent a relatively small percentage of their net worth, or is it more
> >> like they are always on the edge, gambling with all the money they have,
> >> and
> >> all their cash is tied up in their bankroll, rather than in all the
> >> trappings of wealth that multimillionaires usually have? Or I guess the
> >> other possibility is that they mostly play on other peoples money, if
> >> they
> >> have backers.
> >>
> >> There are also a lot of accounts of pros borrowing money from each other.
> >> So for most, is it a case of win millions, lose millions, so the net
> >> comes
> >> out pretty much a wash, or do you think that the top pros actually clear
> >> millions in profits each year? Anybody have any info on this?
> >>
> >> Thanks.
> >
> > The answer varies widely by pro. In theory, to stay in action in
> > something like the big game (usually played 2000/4000) you would need
> > about 2 million in bankroll or about 500 big bets. Very few big pros have
> > that much cash readily on tap. Instead they borrow from/stake each other
> > and play with shorter rolls. I would guess many of them probably have
> > about 100 big bets on hand, so if you figure a population of 10 big game
> > regulars, collectively they've got about 2 real bankrolls between them.
> >
> > In addition to that, most of them have some additional liquid assets that
> > could be directed at poker. Not as much as you might think for some of
> > them though. The longer time pros like Doyle, Chip (before he passed),
> > Jennifer, Patrik, and Barry probably have somewhat more - they're the
> > millionaires you're looking for. A few like Benyamine are broke outside
> > of poker (and in his case, broke at poker too but staked).
> >
> > The big game losers don't have a bankroll per se - just money they can
> > afford to lose. You can spot them because they have outside income -
> > Sammy, Lyle, Eli etc.
> >
> > Wayne Vinson
> > http://cardsharp.org/
> > Wayne (dot) Vinson (at) gmail (dot) com
>
> I've heard Helmuth say a couple of times that he has $20 million. However,
> I agree with Wayne. If it wasn't for online poker, and the associated
> endorsements, I think a large percentage of today's poker super stars would
> be kicking around in low stakes tournaments and ring games. And, regardless
> of the money they have today, I think there's a good chance the really heavy
> gamblers like Phil Ivy and Eric Lindgren will ultimately end up broke.
>
> Irish Mike

I think Ivy has made more from poker than anyone else in the last 10 yrs.
He is a VERY WEALTHY man. He has the best of everything, his new car cost 1.9
million (BugattiEB16.4) beautiful home and huge bankroll.

_______________________________________________________________
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On Mar 28 2008 9:16 PM, Irish Mike wrote:

> "Wayne Vinson" wrote in message
> news:jakvb5x33c.ln2@recgroups.com...
> > On Mar 28 2008 3:47 AM, browser wrote:
> >
> >> After watching shows like High Stakes Poker, and reading accounts of the
> >> big
> >> cash games, I was wondering if the top poker pros are all millionaires,
> >> or
> >> worth tens of millions, like the top pros in professional sports. It
> >> would
> >> seem that you would have to be in order to be able to routinely play in
> >> poker games that have pots worth hundreds of thousands of dollars. It
> >> wouldn't take too many bad beats to run through a million or two in no
> >> time.
> >> So are most of the most well known players very wealthy, so that these
> >> games
> >> represent a relatively small percentage of their net worth, or is it more
> >> like they are always on the edge, gambling with all the money they have,
> >> and
> >> all their cash is tied up in their bankroll, rather than in all the
> >> trappings of wealth that multimillionaires usually have? Or I guess the
> >> other possibility is that they mostly play on other peoples money, if
> >> they
> >> have backers.
> >>
> >> There are also a lot of accounts of pros borrowing money from each other.
> >> So for most, is it a case of win millions, lose millions, so the net
> >> comes
> >> out pretty much a wash, or do you think that the top pros actually clear
> >> millions in profits each year? Anybody have any info on this?
> >>
> >> Thanks.
> >
> > The answer varies widely by pro. In theory, to stay in action in
> > something like the big game (usually played 2000/4000) you would need
> > about 2 million in bankroll or about 500 big bets. Very few big pros have
> > that much cash readily on tap. Instead they borrow from/stake each other
> > and play with shorter rolls. I would guess many of them probably have
> > about 100 big bets on hand, so if you figure a population of 10 big game
> > regulars, collectively they've got about 2 real bankrolls between them.
> >
> > In addition to that, most of them have some additional liquid assets that
> > could be directed at poker. Not as much as you might think for some of
> > them though. The longer time pros like Doyle, Chip (before he passed),
> > Jennifer, Patrik, and Barry probably have somewhat more - they're the
> > millionaires you're looking for. A few like Benyamine are broke outside
> > of poker (and in his case, broke at poker too but staked).
> >
> > The big game losers don't have a bankroll per se - just money they can
> > afford to lose. You can spot them because they have outside income -
> > Sammy, Lyle, Eli etc.
> >
> > Wayne Vinson
> > http://cardsharp.org/
> > Wayne (dot) Vinson (at) gmail (dot) com
>
> I've heard Helmuth say a couple of times that he has $20 million. However,
> I agree with Wayne. If it wasn't for online poker, and the associated
> endorsements, I think a large percentage of today's poker super stars would
> be kicking around in low stakes tournaments and ring games. And, regardless
> of the money they have today, I think there's a good chance the really heavy
> gamblers like Phil Ivy and Eric Lindgren will ultimately end up broke.
>
> Irish Mike

FACT:
In 2002 before the online and TV stuff most of the high limit players you see
today were playing $300 buy-in tournaments and fighting hard to cash in them.
I remember the $500 buy-in half holdem and half omaha at the CA state champ.
Danny N was at the final table with me and he really wanted to win more than I
did. BTW Ted was in the same tournament along with Phil Ivey.
The connections and ownership of some onine has made many very very rich.  Far
beyond they could ever make at the tables.
Also as example Howard L. was playing in sats in 2002 trying to win a seat in
the main event at the WSOP.
Wealth changed qucikly for many after they started FTP.

Does anyone really think Phil I. made most of his money at the tables?  He made
it from online interests.



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On Mar 28 2008 10:43 PM, hanks wrote:

>
>
>
> On Mar 28 2008 8:16 PM, Irish Mike wrote:
>
> > "Wayne Vinson" wrote in message
> > news:jakvb5x33c.ln2@recgroups.com...
> > > On Mar 28 2008 3:47 AM, browser wrote:
> > >
> > >> After watching shows like High Stakes Poker, and reading accounts of the
> > >> big
> > >> cash games, I was wondering if the top poker pros are all millionaires,
> > >> or
> > >> worth tens of millions, like the top pros in professional sports. It
> > >> would
> > >> seem that you would have to be in order to be able to routinely play in
> > >> poker games that have pots worth hundreds of thousands of dollars. It
> > >> wouldn't take too many bad beats to run through a million or two in no
> > >> time.
> > >> So are most of the most well known players very wealthy, so that these
> > >> games
> > >> represent a relatively small percentage of their net worth, or is it more
> > >> like they are always on the edge, gambling with all the money they have,
> > >> and
> > >> all their cash is tied up in their bankroll, rather than in all the
> > >> trappings of wealth that multimillionaires usually have? Or I guess the
> > >> other possibility is that they mostly play on other peoples money, if
> > >> they
> > >> have backers.
> > >>
> > >> There are also a lot of accounts of pros borrowing money from each other.
> > >> So for most, is it a case of win millions, lose millions, so the net
> > >> comes
> > >> out pretty much a wash, or do you think that the top pros actually clear
> > >> millions in profits each year? Anybody have any info on this?
> > >>
> > >> Thanks.
> > >
> > > The answer varies widely by pro. In theory, to stay in action in
> > > something like the big game (usually played 2000/4000) you would need
> > > about 2 million in bankroll or about 500 big bets. Very few big pros have
> > > that much cash readily on tap. Instead they borrow from/stake each other
> > > and play with shorter rolls. I would guess many of them probably have
> > > about 100 big bets on hand, so if you figure a population of 10 big game
> > > regulars, collectively they've got about 2 real bankrolls between them.
> > >
> > > In addition to that, most of them have some additional liquid assets that
> > > could be directed at poker. Not as much as you might think for some of
> > > them though. The longer time pros like Doyle, Chip (before he passed),
> > > Jennifer, Patrik, and Barry probably have somewhat more - they're the
> > > millionaires you're looking for. A few like Benyamine are broke outside
> > > of poker (and in his case, broke at poker too but staked).
> > >
> > > The big game losers don't have a bankroll per se - just money they can
> > > afford to lose. You can spot them because they have outside income -
> > > Sammy, Lyle, Eli etc.
> > >
> > > Wayne Vinson
> > > http://cardsharp.org/
> > > Wayne (dot) Vinson (at) gmail (dot) com
> >
> > I've heard Helmuth say a couple of times that he has $20 million. However,
> > I agree with Wayne. If it wasn't for online poker, and the associated
> > endorsements, I think a large percentage of today's poker super stars would
> > be kicking around in low stakes tournaments and ring games. And, regardless
> > of the money they have today, I think there's a good chance the really heavy
> >
> > gamblers like Phil Ivy and Eric Lindgren will ultimately end up broke.
> >
> > Irish Mike
>
> I think Ivy has made more from poker than anyone else in the last 10 yrs.
> He is a VERY WEALTHY man. He has the best of everything, his new car cost 1.9
> million (BugattiEB16.4) beautiful home and huge bankroll.

You also know he did not make it from playing he made it from investments in
online poker.


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