Who wants to bet this turn?

On Jul 21 2008 12:15 PM, John_Brian_K wrote:

> > CAZ 20-40 game, full of the usual suspects and playing mostly
> > loose-passive.
> >
> > UTG limps, I call Q-J clubs, few callers and BB decides to raise, all call.
> >
> > Flop: KhQd4c. BB checks (somewhat surprising. He's either taking a real
> > chance of it getting checked thru w/ AA or KK or has something like 99 and
> > is done w/ the hand), UTG checks, I bet what might be the best hand, and
> > get only 2 callers in MP.
>
> Loose passive does not IMO equate to someone checking TP here so I am
> guessing you are good here. You bet and get 2 callers, but which 2?

I was UTG+1, sorry for leaving that out.

I bet for the reason you mentioned. The 2 callers are just some
run-of-the-mill players in MP, I thought that was clear.



>
> > Turn: 10s. Check or bet?
> >
> >
> >
> > Howard Beale
>
> The way you make it sound is that you are EP and going to be first to act
> when you say you called preflop then got a couple MP callers on the flop
> after it went check to you. First in I bet to see where I am at. Last in
> and they both check I still bet based off your 'loose passive' tag.

OK, I was UTG+1 so the turn decision is more difficult.

> LIONS Superbowls- lol

Arizona Cardinals: Now THAT'S a lol for you.


HB

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> OK, I was UTG+1 so the turn decision is more difficult.
>
> > LIONS Superbowls- lol
>
> Arizona Cardinals: Now THAT'S a lol for you.
>
>
> HB

I know the history a little, but I do not think Arizona comes CLOSE to the
ineptitude of the DETROIT Lions organization. You really need to live
here to appreciate it fully. lol

I am sure Arizona's is bad and I am in mourning with you!

TIGERS World Series- 35, 45, 68, 84
RED WINGS Stanley Cups- 36, 37, 43, 50, 52, 54, 55, 97, 98, 02, 08
PISTONS Championships- 44, 45, 89, 90, 05
LIONS Superbowls- lol

BOOM byae
John

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On Jul 21 2008 12:51 PM, Howard Beale wrote:

> CAZ 20-40 game, full of the usual suspects and playing mostly
> loose-passive.
>
> UTG limps, I call Q-J clubs, few callers and BB decides to raise, all call.
>
> Flop: KhQd4c. BB checks (somewhat surprising. He's either taking a real
> chance of it getting checked thru w/ AA or KK or has something like 99 and
> is done w/ the hand), UTG checks, I bet what might be the best hand, and
> get only 2 callers in MP.
>
> Turn: 10s. Check or bet?

Are you betting to throw it away if you get raised ? if you get raised ..
are you going to call and draw to the str8?

Are you betting it for the best hand?

Before I would ask if one should bet this hand.. I would decide why I was
betting , if you choose to do so !!

If it gets checked to you on the turn there arent many hands you can beat,
but you are going to get called by anyone with J in their hand , and you
have them in serious trouble!

Anyone can make a case for checking or betting here.

Poker questions like this are kinda pointless, cuz the questioner can
never portray his 'feelings or 'vibes" about the hand

Black and white "cookie cutter" questions are pointless without input on
ones intuitive level

Right Marc?

So where Did Ernie end up?

What poker room is he infesting?

Did they make him a host at the Fort?
>
>
>
> Howard Beale

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On Jul 21 2008 1:26 PM, Howard Beale wrote:

> On Jul 21 2008 12:15 PM, John_Brian_K wrote:
>
> > > CAZ 20-40 game, full of the usual suspects and playing mostly
> > > loose-passive.
> > >
> > > UTG limps, I call Q-J clubs, few callers and BB decides to raise, all
call.
> > >
> > > Flop: KhQd4c. BB checks (somewhat surprising. He's either taking a
real
> > > chance of it getting checked thru w/ AA or KK or has something like 99
and
> > > is done w/ the hand), UTG checks, I bet what might be the best hand, and
> > > get only 2 callers in MP.
> >
> > Loose passive does not IMO equate to someone checking TP here so I am
> > guessing you are good here. You bet and get 2 callers, but which 2?
>
> I was UTG+1, sorry for leaving that out.
>
> I bet for the reason you mentioned. The 2 callers are just some
> run-of-the-mill players in MP, I thought that was clear.

iF YOU WERE UNDER THE GUN +1 DOES THAT NOT PUT YOU IN MP?

IF NOT THEN THEY WERE BEHIND YOU?

And if so .. it wasnt clear !!
>
>
>
> >
> > > Turn: 10s. Check or bet?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Howard Beale
> >
> > The way you make it sound is that you are EP and going to be first to act
> > when you say you called preflop then got a couple MP callers on the flop
> > after it went check to you. First in I bet to see where I am at. Last in
> > and they both check I still bet based off your 'loose passive' tag.
>
> OK, I was UTG+1 so the turn decision is more difficult.
>
> > LIONS Superbowls- lol
>
> Arizona Cardinals: Now THAT'S a lol for you.
>
>
> HB

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Check-call no more than one bet on the turn. Then Check-call a river 9 or
river Q; Bet the Ace and Check-fold everything else.

KookieMonstr.

On Jul 21 2008 11:51 AM, Howard Beale wrote:

> CAZ 20-40 game, full of the usual suspects and playing mostly
> loose-passive.
>
> UTG limps, I call Q-J clubs, few callers and BB decides to raise, all call.
>
> Flop: KhQd4c. BB checks (somewhat surprising. He's either taking a real
> chance of it getting checked thru w/ AA or KK or has something like 99 and
> is done w/ the hand), UTG checks, I bet what might be the best hand, and
> get only 2 callers in MP.
>
> Turn: 10s. Check or bet?
>
>
>
> Howard Beale

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On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 10:51:23 -0700, "Howard Beale"
<a1695.DeleteThis@webnntp.invalid> wrote:

>CAZ 20-40 game, full of the usual suspects and playing mostly
>loose-passive.

>UTG limps, I call Q-J clubs, few callers and BB decides to raise, all call.

>Flop: KhQd4c. BB checks (somewhat surprising. He's either taking a real
>chance of it getting checked thru w/ AA or KK or has something like 99 and
>is done w/ the hand), UTG checks, I bet what might be the best hand, and
>get only 2 callers in MP.

>Turn: 10s. Check or bet?

I check though I think it's a pretty close call.
 >> Stay informed about: Who wants to bet this turn? 

You have to bet. You can't give away a free card, plus you get info.
Betting is far and way the right play.

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On Jul 21 2008 1:16 PM, Travel wrote:

> You have to bet. You can't give away a free card, plus you get info.
> Betting is far and way the right play.
>
> _________________________________________________________
> Posted via the -Web to Usenet- forums at http://www.pokermagazine.com
> Visit www.pokermagazine.com

You get INFO?? At what ? 40 dollars a card?

You can get the same info for free, on the river if you check the turn.
and a blank comes and it goes bet .. raise in front of you.

people like you who say 'get info" are the same ones who after getting the
info... call all the way down . lose , and then say "At least I found out
where I was "

AND YOU MEAN IT !!

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"Howard Beale" <a1695 RemoveThis @webnntp.invalid> wrote in message
news:rtuel5xcje.ln2@recgroups.com...
> CAZ 20-40 game, full of the usual suspects and playing mostly
> loose-passive.
>
> UTG limps, I call Q-J clubs, few callers and BB decides to raise, all
> call.
>
> Flop: KhQd4c. BB checks (somewhat surprising. He's either taking a real
> chance of it getting checked thru w/ AA or KK or has something like 99 and
> is done w/ the hand), UTG checks, I bet what might be the best hand, and
> get only 2 callers in MP.
>
> Turn: 10s. Check or bet?
>
>
I don't follow where you are at the table...you're now first to act? I
think you have to bet, and if the table is mostly passive you fold if
raised. AJ and J9 are possible hands against you, and you aren't likely to
be raised by anything less.
 >> Stay informed about: Who wants to bet this turn? 

On Jul 21 2008 3:05 PM, K9way wrote:

> On Jul 21 2008 12:51 PM, Howard Beale wrote:
>
> > CAZ 20-40 game, full of the usual suspects and playing mostly
> > loose-passive.
> >
> > UTG limps, I call Q-J clubs, few callers and BB decides to raise, all call.
> >
> > Flop: KhQd4c. BB checks (somewhat surprising. He's either taking a real
> > chance of it getting checked thru w/ AA or KK or has something like 99 and
> > is done w/ the hand), UTG checks, I bet what might be the best hand, and
> > get only 2 callers in MP.
> >
> > Turn: 10s. Check or bet?
>
> Are you betting to throw it away if you get raised ? if you get raised ..
> are you going to call and draw to the str8?
>
> Are you betting it for the best hand?
>
> Before I would ask if one should bet this hand.. I would decide why I was
> betting , if you choose to do so !!

Why do you need to do that?

In LHE, it is enough to have several different bits of equity, and as long
as the sum, against a range of hands, is profitable, it is at least +EV to
bet (it may be better to raise).

If you bet here (which I like, given the line thus far), you are hoping to
make a J call you, to make a hand like AT or AQ fold, to possibly make a
hand like K-rag fold, and to keep a weak but better hand like AK from
raising.

> If it gets checked to you on the turn there arent many hands you can beat,
> but you are going to get called by anyone with J in their hand , and you
> have them in serious trouble!
>
> Anyone can make a case for checking or betting here.

Indeed. Either can be correct here.

Fell

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"K9way" Usenet Poster
ad14635.DeleteThis@webnntp.invalid Post #9 of 10 (2 views) Copy Shortcut Jul 21,
2008, 3:09 PM
Re: Who wants to bet this turn? Reply

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---------

On Jul 21 2008 1:16 PM, Travel wrote:

> You have to bet. You can't give away a free card, plus you get info.
> Betting is far and way the right play.
>
> _________________________________________________________
> Posted via the -Web to Usenet- forums at http://www.pokermagazine.com

> Visit www.pokermagazine.com

"You get INFO?? At what ? 40 dollars a card?"

Huh? It's a BB. If you're worried about a BB being $40 you shouldn't be
playing 20/40.


"You can get the same info for free, on the river if you check the
turn."

No, you can't. After your opponents have already had their free card,
it's not the same information. You want to take control of the betting
and force your opponents into making a decision. Betting is
absolutely the right play.


"and a blank comes and it goes bet .. raise in front of you."

Huh? You're first to act.



"people like you who say 'get info" are the same ones who after getting
the
info... call all the way down . lose , and then say "At least I found
out
where I was "


Seriously, you don't know what you're talking about. You left out:
preventing your opponents from drawing out on you. You left out forcing
them to reveal their strength (especially after they "calling station"
called the flop. You left out -playng a hand to win it- and not just
playing a hand to SEE if you end up winning it.

The information you get is how they act on the bet. You change the
dynamic of the hand by betting. How can you not understand that?

You're playing tight/aggressive strategy which means aggressive with
middle pair QQ (when your opponents didn't raise the flop with the over
card K) and a straight draw. You're opponents are showing weakness and
it's an opportunity to fill that void. Checking down this hand is
stupid.

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"Howard Beale" <a1695.TakeThisOut@webnntp.invalid> wrote in message
news:rtuel5xcje.ln2@recgroups.com...
> CAZ 20-40 game, full of the usual suspects and playing mostly



CAZ? Casino Arizona?
 >> Stay informed about: Who wants to bet this turn? 

On Jul 21 2008 1:51 PM, Howard Beale wrote:

> CAZ 20-40 game, full of the usual suspects and playing mostly
> loose-passive.
>
> UTG limps, I call Q-J clubs, few callers and BB decides to raise, all call.
>
> Flop: KhQd4c. BB checks (somewhat surprising. He's either taking a real
> chance of it getting checked thru w/ AA or KK or has something like 99 and
> is done w/ the hand), UTG checks, I bet what might be the best hand, and
> get only 2 callers in MP.
>

I have to say I really don't like this bet. According to your synopsis
there are about six players in this hand and I don't figure to ship it
with second pair J kicker. This isn't the flop I'm looking for against
this many opponents. I check and maybe call one bet if there are still a
lot along for the ride. I'm not trying to take the lead, I don't expect
to run through six players.

> Turn: 10s. Check or bet?
>

Given that, you've faded it down to two, and you have some chance of
picking up the pot with a bet here. Lots of garbage will call you on the
cheap street but might not be so willing now. You are representing an
unlimited hand and picked up a draw to boot. Checking is bad here IMO and
inconsistent.

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