Thinking of taking the plunge into Professional Poker

On Sat, 9 Feb 2008 22:03:54 -0800 (PST), Preston <prestonpoulter RemoveThis @hotmail.com>
wrote:

>On Feb 9, 10:59 pm, A Man Beaten by Jacks <nob... RemoveThis @fool.foo> wrote:
>> On Sat, 9 Feb 2008 20:15:12 -0800 (PST), Preston <prestonpoul... RemoveThis @hotmail.com>
>> wrote:

>> >On the contrary, some of it clearly was hatin; you chose to post
>> >merely to post.
>> >Not that I minded, but it was as strangely negative reaction.

>> Perhaps you should have included in your original post a request that
>> only replies like "Wow, that's a great idea, best idea I ever heard"
>> were welcome.

>You misrepresent my position. At no point did I ever say anything of
>the kind.
>I am mystified by people such as yourself posting negative comments
>merely to post
>negative comments, but that's the nature of the internet I suppose.

I did no such thing. Pardon me for attempting to answer your fucking
question.

Asshole.
 >> Stay informed about: Thinking of taking the plunge into Professional Poker 

On Feb 10, 10:19 pm, A Man Beaten by Jacks <nob....TakeThisOut@fool.foo> wrote:
> On Sat, 9 Feb 2008 22:03:54 -0800 (PST), Preston <prestonpoul....TakeThisOut@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> >On Feb 9, 10:59 pm, A Man Beaten by Jacks <nob....TakeThisOut@fool.foo> wrote:
> >> On Sat, 9 Feb 2008 20:15:12 -0800 (PST), Preston <prestonpoul....TakeThisOut@hotmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >> >On the contrary, some of it clearly was hatin; you chose to post
> >> >merely to post.
> >> >Not that I minded, but it was as strangely negative reaction.
> >> Perhaps you should have included in your original post a request that
> >> only replies like "Wow, that's a great idea, best idea I ever heard"
> >> were welcome.
> >You misrepresent my position. At no point did I ever say anything of
> >the kind.
> >I am mystified by people such as yourself posting negative comments
> >merely to post
> >negative comments, but that's the nature of the internet I suppose.
>
> I did no such thing.  Pardon me for attempting to answer your fucking
> question.
>
> Asshole.

But that's just it. You DID NOT answer my question. Asshole.
 >> Stay informed about: Thinking of taking the plunge into Professional Poker 

> but my question is this: Suppose you get up one day, and just don't
> feel like playing poker? Do you take the day off, or force yourself back to
> the daily grind?

I take the day off.

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 >> Stay informed about: Thinking of taking the plunge into Professional Poker 

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 >> Stay informed about: Thinking of taking the plunge into Professional Poker 

On Feb 10 2008 4:15 PM, Palooka wrote:

> "Patti Beadles" <pattib.DeleteThis@violet.rahul.net> wrote in message
> news:fonnga$tq$1@blue.rahul.net...
> > In article <1202521237$1105372@recpoker.com>,
> > Abbey Johnsson <43087474.DeleteThis@recpoker.com> wrote:
> >
> >> It is? The median household income in the US is about 50k/year which is
> >>$25/hour. I didnt realize what a poor country the US is with the average
> >>household/personsurviving on"chump change".
> >
> > The median income in major west-coast cities is higher because
> > the cost of living is significantly higher.
> >
> > Bear in mind also that $50K/year usually includes significant
> > benefits like health insurance (minimum of around $300/month,
> > more if you're older or have a family), the employer's
> > contribution to social security (7.5%), paid vacation, and
> > quite a few other things. I just did some calculations on my
> > income, and my benefits are worth around $20K/year.
> >
> PMFJI, but my question is this: Suppose you get up one day, and just don't
> feel like playing poker? Do you take the day off, or force yourself back to
> the daily grind?
>
> This is intended as a serious question, not an attack, troll or any such.
>
> Thanks,
> Palooka

It's more than just a day off. Andy Beyer (my $50,000 year at the races) talked
about the need to every once in a while just walk away from the Racing Form and
take a hot blonde out to a French restuarent.

To that 50k you need to add benefits, and mental health days.

Also continueing education. Poker players who don't engage in CE go that old
loball game in the sky when no limit hold'em becomes the old guy game.

You also need time (and travel expense) to scout new locations from time to
time. If the movie industry dries up (or moves to Austin) maybe it will be nice
if you know about that pot limit game in Wichita. You also need a risk cushion,
to ensure future income you need to be setting aside current income to grow the
bankroll.

Add it all up and you need to follow the rule of thumb that consultant firms,
law firms, etc follow. Multiply that 50k by 3.
By 2 if you're willing to live in your car every once in a while.

50k a year in fulltime poker winnings should easily give you the lifestyle of
someone with a solid job that pays 20k a year plus benefits and includes
continuing education etc.

In LA you can find them at Taco Bell.

Gary Carson
http://www.garycarson.com



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 >> Stay informed about: Thinking of taking the plunge into Professional Poker 

On Feb 10 2008 8:33 PM, Bill Vanek wrote:

> On Sun, 10 Feb 2008 22:37:44 GMT, "Irish Mike" <mjostar.DeleteThis@ameritech.net>
> wrote:
>
> >The real issue is, how do you define a professional poker player? For some
> >RGPers, the definition is a person who has no other source of income except
> >poker. So from their perspective the hours a person spends playing poker
> >doesn't matter because, if that person has any form of non-poker income, he
> >can not be a "real" professional poker player.
>
> And you see, this weasely answer is why your idiotic claims to being a
> pro are always laughed at. When someone posts a question about
> quitting his job and playing professionally, there is only one way to
> define it. In this context, a person has to show up and actually put a
> lot of hours in at the table. A pro is a person who can actually make
> a living when he doesn't have the option of walking away from any
> marginally tough game.
>
> I don't even have to ask why you never answer the question about how
> many hours you play a year. Most pros, as the term would be understood
> here, play more hours in a month than you play in a year, and you know
> it. Anyone can be a winning player when you can walk away from any
> game that isn't full of fish, or that you can't beat with robotic, by
> the book play.
>
> Your "pro player" claims wouldn't be so irritating if you weren't so
> smug with your replies - replies that are nearly always based on
> ignorance.

Actually, I don't think I've ever known a professional poker player who didn't
have some form of alternative income. Or at least they quickly developed one if
they wanted to stay a pro. For some it's a pension, for some a wife with a job,
for some running errands for a drug dealer every once in a while, for me it was
free lance magazine writing, for some it was hooking, for some making book, for
some selling rolex fakes.

The road gambling stories of guys like Brunson or Amarillo Slim or Jack Strauss
are just myth. Those guys were bookies who rode around to poker games as a way
to hustle up business. They later made a lot of money playing poker by hitting
up major marks like Major Riddle and Jimmy Chagra.

The skill you need to develop is the skill to get yourself invited to Larry
Flynt's private games.


Gary Carson
http://www.garycarson.com



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 >> Stay informed about: Thinking of taking the plunge into Professional Poker 

On Mon, 11 Feb 08 2:48:50 GMT, Gary Carson
<garycarson.RemoveThis@alumni.northwestern.edu> wrote:

>Actually, I don't think I've ever known a professional poker player who didn't
>have some form of alternative income.

They exist.

> Or at least they quickly developed one if
>they wanted to stay a pro. For some it's a pension, for some a wife with a job,
>for some running errands for a drug dealer every once in a while, for me it was
>free lance magazine writing, for some it was hooking, for some making book, for
>some selling rolex fakes.

This is a pretty complex issue. I don't know how many pros really want
to play poker for a living. It's a source of income without a regular
job. It's just what they do, but if they could do something else,
make the same money, and keep the same schedule, a lot of them would
quickly walk away from poker. I'm sure every one of them has some
other skills, and if something comes along where they can pick up some
extra cash, again, without an actual job, they'll do it. The relevant
questions are: is the poker money or the other money the "alternative
income", and could they survive without the non-poker income? I know
players in LV who do fine on poker alone. Don't forget too that there
are good players who also cheat. That little extra edge can sustain
the "pro player" status for a long time.
 >> Stay informed about: Thinking of taking the plunge into Professional Poker 

On Feb 10 2008 5:18 PM, Preston wrote:



So I just view the income based
> criticism of the move as being really without much merit.

I guess you didn't read the grilled cheese sandwich story.

http://garycarson.netfirms.com/carwreck.php#grilledcheese

There's also a lot of us on here that have lived in their car. Ever done that?

It's about the money. And gambling for a living isn't about income, it's about
hustle. Every day. Hustle for money. Day after day after day.

It's fun. It's like selling used cars except you're selling air.


Gary Carson
http://www.garycarson.com



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On Feb 10 2008 4:39 PM, Clearlight wrote:

> I'll tell you what happens... you start to lose your soul and you
> become someone different that who you are right now. Because no matter
> how good a poker player you become some day, the fact of that matter
> is playing poker is one of the most singularly spiritually and
> emotionally unfulfilling things that you can do for a living that I'm
> aware of. The only exception to this would be if you were a compulsive
> gambler. Than you can just fall back on that old adage of "the only
> thing that feels better than winning a thousand is losing a
> thousand".

One day I was standing in the room in Artichoke Joe's and watched a guy sell a
liquor store located on El Camino Real for $8,000. He needed it to buy back
into a loball game.

I wasn't stunned by what he did. But I was stunned by what my thought were. My
thoughts were about how I should get into that game.

When I realized my life had become about doing whatever I could to destroy the
lives of others I quit playing poker for two years and went and lived on the
beach in Port Aransas, Texas writing erotica.

Actually, I didn't do it right away, I did it about two weeks later, after I got
robbed. That's when I really got disgusted.



Gary Carson
http://www.garycarson.com



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On Feb 10 2008 6:20 PM, Preston wrote:

> On Feb 10, 6:32=A0pm, "brewmaster" <brewmas... DeleteThis @brewcam.com> wrote:
> > On Feb 10 2008 3:18 PM, Preston wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > > On Feb 10, 4:39 pm, Clearlight <marc.ev... DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > I suppose I'm really trying to understand the negative perception
> > > > > based on those who take part in the lifestyle itself?
> >
> > > > I've been hanging around card rooms in California and playing for a
> > > > lving off and on for almost 35 years and while your intentions may
> > > > seem noble, insofar as you want to be closer to your daughter, it
> > > > doesn't seem to me that you're really looking at the overall "big
> > > > picture".
> >
> > > > Let's just say for a minute that you take even some of the free advise=
>
> > > > that's been offered up to you in this thread, none of which I would
> > > > disagree with, and you actually move to California and find that you
> > > > can grind out one big bet per hour from a 15-30 game. Personally I
> > > > doubt that you'll be able to but that's beside the point, let's just
> > > > say that you can. Than what?
> >
> > > > As has been posted already, unless you want to play a minimum of 50-60=
>
> > > > hours a week, that's not going to be enough to survive. I don't care
> > > > what anyone else tells you, you can not afford any kind of decent life=
>
> > > > for yourself and your daughter in southern California on anything less=
>
> > > > that $6-7k per month income and that's every f'ing month, month in and=
>
> > > > month out.
> >
> > > > OK so now let's just say that by some miracle, this actually happens
> > > > and you're playing 60 hours a week and making your $30 bucks an hour.
> > > > How what? What have you got planned for your off time?
> >
> > > > I'll tell you what happens... you start to lose your soul and you
> > > > become someone different that who you are right now. Because no matter=
>
> > > > how good a poker player you become some day, the fact of that matter
> > > > is playing poker is one of the most singularly spiritually and
> > > > emotionally unfulfilling things that you can do for a living that I'm
> > > > aware of. The only exception to this would be if you were a compulsive=
>
> > > > gambler. Than you can just fall back on that old adage of "the only
> > > > thing that feels better than winning a thousand is losing a
> > > > thousand".
> >
> > > > So, now, does this give you some more insight into "the negative
> > > > perception based on those who take part in the lifestyle itself?"
> >
> > > > Good luck with whatever you should decide.
> >
> > > Except that, people are saying that I should be able to get a job that
> > > pays $80 to $100k a year and that, in comparison, poker is pretty
> > > crappy. Well, I know a lot of people in California and I don' t know
> > > many that earn that kind of income. My ex-wife is an attorney and she
> > > makes around $85-90 or so. My girlfriend is a hairdresser and she's
> > > earning probably half that. In comparison to other job offers and the
> > > time involved, $60k seems like a decent living. People argue that it
> > > doesn't compare because other jobs have benefits, but that $60k cash
> > > still beats post-doc income or teaching junior college or a lot of
> > > other things- and that's assuming I am completely honest with the
> > > government about every dollar I won. So I just view the income based
> > > criticism of the move as being really without much merit.
> >
> > You sound like you want to do it, and you have given it some thought. =A0I=
>
> > would like to hear how it turns out for you. =A0I live in L.A. (and have m=
> y
> > whole life) and have played the 15/30 and 20/40 quite a bit at Hollywood
> > Park, Commerce, Hustler (not so much at the Bike because I don't speak
> > Chinese). =A0I play mostly at Pechanga now, but their 15/30 and 20/40 are
> > gone because of the NL games. =A0I know most of the people you will be
> > playing against in those games in L.A., and (although I'm not a great
> > player) consider those to be tough games.
> >
> > Good luck, and let us know how it turns out. =A0Post here when you get out=
>
> > here and start playing and I'll come by your table and say hi.
> >
> > -------=A0
> I surely will. Although by reading your perceptions of the players
> involved it's pretty clear we're talking about different players. It
> seems like around midnight in LA casinos the $15-30 games become
> collections of live players who seem to act as though money grows on
> trees. I'm sure experience changes from one casino to another and a
> lot of it depends on time and, as I mentioned, I have limited
> experience in $15-30.

If you play between midnight to 3am on Friday nights you'll have a pretty good
hourly rate if you're decent at all.

Of course the limit games have been drying for about the last 3 years and will
probably continue to dry up for the next 3 years. But you don't to worry about
that.


Gary Carson
http://www.garycarson.com



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 >> Stay informed about: Thinking of taking the plunge into Professional Poker 

On Feb 10 2008 10:18 PM, Bill Vanek wrote:

> On Mon, 11 Feb 08 2:48:50 GMT, Gary Carson
> <garycarson RemoveThis @alumni.northwestern.edu> wrote:
>
> >Actually, I don't think I've ever known a professional poker player who
> >didn't
> >have some form of alternative income.
>
> They exist.
>
> > Or at least they quickly developed one if
> >they wanted to stay a pro. For some it's a pension, for some a wife with a
> >job,
> >for some running errands for a drug dealer every once in a while, for me it
> >was
> >free lance magazine writing, for some it was hooking, for some making book,
> >for
> >some selling rolex fakes.
>
> This is a pretty complex issue. I don't know how many pros really want
> to play poker for a living. It's a source of income without a regular
> job. It's just what they do, but if they could do something else,
> make the same money, and keep the same schedule, a lot of them would
> quickly walk away from poker. I'm sure every one of them has some
> other skills, and if something comes along where they can pick up some
> extra cash, again, without an actual job, they'll do it. The relevant
> questions are: is the poker money or the other money the "alternative
> income", and could they survive without the non-poker income? I know
> players in LV who do fine on poker alone. Don't forget too that there
> are good players who also cheat. That little extra edge can sustain
> the "pro player" status for a long time.

I'll never forget the Las Vegas cocktail waitress whose boyfriend was a full
time blackjack pro who was trying to sell a side of beef he had laying in the
back of his pickup out in the parking lot.

Las Vegas.

August.

Gary Carson
http://www.garycarson.com



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On Mon, 11 Feb 08 5:30:46 GMT, Gary Carson
<garycarson DeleteThis @alumni.northwestern.edu> wrote:

>I'll never forget the Las Vegas cocktail waitress whose boyfriend was a full
>time blackjack pro who was trying to sell a side of beef he had laying in the
>back of his pickup out in the parking lot.
>
>Las Vegas.
>
>August.

Sounds like a pre-cooked side of beef. Just reheat.
 >> Stay informed about: Thinking of taking the plunge into Professional Poker 

In article <2IKrj.8250$NL3.3866@newsfe2-gui.ntli.net>,
Palooka <nobody.TakeThisOut@nowhere.com> wrote:

>PMFJI, but my question is this: Suppose you get up one day, and just don't
>feel like playing poker? Do you take the day off, or force yourself back to
>the daily grind?

If it happens occasionally you take the day off. If it happens
often, you question your career choice.

-Patti
--
Patti Beadles, Oakland, CA |
pattib~pattib.org | All religions are equally
http://www.pattib.org/ | ludicrous, and should be ridiculed
http://stopshootingauto.com | as often as possible. C. Bond
 >> Stay informed about: Thinking of taking the plunge into Professional Poker