A little help for an aspiring novice

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"the truth about tells"
"Ken Lovering" <taintedrogue.TakeThisOut@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:blqmia$etblh$1@ID-196892.news.uni-berlin.de...
> I would suggest buy Caro's book on poker tells. It's worth the $25.00. I
> hear the video is even better. But I play 6/12 and am up this year and I
> don't attribute it to being good at reading people, because I'm not.
>
> Best regards,
> Ken
>
>
> "Orothar" <Orothar.TakeThisOut@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:878fffc4.0310051829.50c04c99@posting.google.com...
> > Hey all,
> > I'm relatively new to taking poker seriously (as something more
> > than just a thing I do with my budies) and am halfway decent at
> > pot-odds, position play, table selection, and avoiding my tells, but I
> > have absolutely no skill at figuring out and reading other people
> > during the game. I could use some hints or someplace to get started
> > in learning how to do this. I play texas holdem almost exclusively
> > (since I'm only a part timer and a poor college student I mostly stick
> > to the 2-4 tables, especially given my low skill level). Thanks for
> > you help.
>
>
 >> Stay informed about: A little help for an aspiring novice 

Caros book of tells is a great book if you want to invest the $17
dollars also as far as taking your game to the next level there is a
free book called the advance concepts of poker. It is an online book,
I printed it off and read it. It is mostly a 5 card draw book but it
teaches alot of the discplines i needed to take my game up a notch.
Both books are listed on my site. Caro's book of tells is the first
listed and advanced concepts is listed last.

www.pokerbreath.com/books.html

dan.TakeThisOut@pokerbreath.com

Orothar.TakeThisOut@yahoo.com (Orothar) wrote in message news:<878fffc4.0310051829.50c04c99.TakeThisOut@posting.google.com>...
> Hey all,
> I'm relatively new to taking poker seriously (as something more
> than just a thing I do with my budies) and am halfway decent at
> pot-odds, position play, table selection, and avoiding my tells, but I
> have absolutely no skill at figuring out and reading other people
> during the game. I could use some hints or someplace to get started
> in learning how to do this. I play texas holdem almost exclusively
> (since I'm only a part timer and a poor college student I mostly stick
> to the 2-4 tables, especially given my low skill level). Thanks for
> you help.
 >> Stay informed about: A little help for an aspiring novice 

Depends on what you're talking about. Are you referring to reading
players strictly in terms of tells? Or are you talking about learning
to put your opponent on a particular hand or range of hands during the
play of a single hand based on the baord cards and betting action?

I don't put a lot of time in trying to pick up tells from my low limit
opponents. Instead, I just look at how they play particular hands.
Always pay attention, even when you're not in a hand. Look at what
cards get shown down. Once you see the cards at showdown, quickly
recap the hand in your head. What was he betting with? What was he
calling with? What was he raising with? You'll find that most low
limit players are not very tricky and in fact, can become quite
predictable. You'll be surprised how much you can learn just from
paying very close attention to the game at all times. A lot of
players tune out when they're not in a hand. Thats not you. You're
dialed in from the minute you sit down.

Tells are swell and all but you'll pick up "tells" based on how your
opponents bet, just by paying attention.


Orothar.RemoveThis@yahoo.com (Orothar) wrote in message news:<878fffc4.0310051829.50c04c99.RemoveThis@posting.google.com>...
> Hey all,
> I'm relatively new to taking poker seriously (as something more
> than just a thing I do with my budies) and am halfway decent at
> pot-odds, position play, table selection, and avoiding my tells, but I
> have absolutely no skill at figuring out and reading other people
> during the game. I could use some hints or someplace to get started
> in learning how to do this. I play texas holdem almost exclusively
> (since I'm only a part timer and a poor college student I mostly stick
> to the 2-4 tables, especially given my low skill level). Thanks for
> you help.
 >> Stay informed about: A little help for an aspiring novice 

Simply put, don't worry so much about reading other people.
If you are starting out, then you should be looking for games with bad
players -- other novices -- ideally worse than you are. Their facial
expressions, habits and the like are rarely useful -- as their play is not
nearly so subtle that it can't be figured out more correctly by observing their
betting action.
That's what you need to do. Just observe their very general betting action.
By that I mean, figure out if they are loose or tight. That's it! Loose or
tight. Do they call too much or fold too much? Most will be too loose. A few
will be too tight. Then remember it -- at least for the session you're in.
But if you play in a casino regularly, keep on book on them.
Once you got that down, go on to passive and aggressive. Some loose
players also raise a lot with little. Some tight players are very aggressive
when they get hands. Some loose players rarely if ever raise. Some tight
players fold too much under pressure. Keep track of that too.
Once you've masterd loose, tight, passive and aggressive you're ready to
pick up Mike Caro's excellent book or video on Poker Tells, the Body Language
of Poker. There are many things in there that might help you.

Good Luck.

Ashley Adams
author of Winning 7-Card Stud

>
>Hey all,
> I'm relatively new to taking poker seriously (as something more
>than just a thing I do with my budies) and am halfway decent at
>pot-odds, position play, table selection, and avoiding my tells, but I
>have absolutely no skill at figuring out and reading other people
>during the game. I could use some hints or someplace to get started
>in learning how to do this. I play texas holdem almost exclusively
>(since I'm only a part timer and a poor college student I mostly stick
>to the 2-4 tables, especially given my low skill level). Thanks for
>you help.
>
>
>
>
>
>
 >> Stay informed about: A little help for an aspiring novice 

If you're playing at my table, then by all means concentrate on reading
tells and giving fake tells and varying your play with advanced moves, and
of course wearing some really cool sunglasses. Please. Oh, and also make
sure to make some genius laydowns at the river.

Just kidding, solid play is all you need at low limits. If you insist on
studying more buy some books or TTH.
 >> Stay informed about: A little help for an aspiring novice 

I read the book. It gave some noteworthy ideas about tells. Some seemed
obvious, others not so. I glanced at some videos of some of his
"lessons". I thought the videos were much better than the pictures and
descriptions in the book. A video just showed so much more it seemed.

http://www.poker1.com/mcu/mculib_video.asp

But I agree with Asha. I think it's much better for your game (and
wallet) to concentrate on perfecting the fundamentals before even thinking
about moving on to tells.


On Oct 6 2003 12:01AM, Asha34 wrote:

> Simply put, don't worry so much about reading other people.
> If you are starting out, then you should be looking for games with bad
> players -- other novices -- ideally worse than you are. Their facial
> expressions, habits and the like are rarely useful -- as their play is not
> nearly so subtle that it can't be figured out more correctly by observing
their
> betting action.
> That's what you need to do. Just observe their very general betting
action.
> By that I mean, figure out if they are loose or tight. That's it! Loose or
> tight. Do they call too much or fold too much? Most will be too loose. A
few
> will be too tight. Then remember it -- at least for the session you're in.
> But if you play in a casino regularly, keep on book on them.
> Once you got that down, go on to passive and aggressive. Some loose
> players also raise a lot with little. Some tight players are very aggressive
> when they get hands. Some loose players rarely if ever raise. Some tight
> players fold too much under pressure. Keep track of that too.
> Once you've masterd loose, tight, passive and aggressive you're ready to
> pick up Mike Caro's excellent book or video on Poker Tells, the Body Language
> of Poker. There are many things in there that might help you.
>
> Good Luck.
>
> Ashley Adams
> author of Winning 7-Card Stud
>
> >
> >Hey all,
> > I'm relatively new to taking poker seriously (as something more
> >than just a thing I do with my budies) and am halfway decent at
> >pot-odds, position play, table selection, and avoiding my tells, but I
> >have absolutely no skill at figuring out and reading other people
> >during the game. I could use some hints or someplace to get started
> >in learning how to do this. I play texas holdem almost exclusively
> >(since I'm only a part timer and a poor college student I mostly stick
> >to the 2-4 tables, especially given my low skill level). Thanks for
> >you help.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >

_________________________________________________________________
Posted using RecPoker.com - http://www.recpoker.com
 >> Stay informed about: A little help for an aspiring novice 

Hey,
Thanks all for the advice. Yeah, I'm not so much concerned with
actual tells as I am with figuring out how approximately what cards
people have, so I can judge how good mine are (in other words, I've
got a fair skill at figuring my outs versus the hands that can beat me
to get some idea of where I actually stand, and I know what hole cards
to muck from the start and which ones to play, but thats just playing
my own cards, not the table, so I only go up a little bit here and
there, with the occasional good night and the odd run of bad cards
here and there).
Looking at agressive vs passive, what do you mean by that? I
understand loose and tight (what hands will be played)... by
aggressive / passive do you mean how willing the person is to raise on
a given hand? So a loose agressive player tries to cap every time on
poor hands, where as a tight passive player (me, as you said I ought
to be) calls and slowplays even monster hands? I'm pretty sure I
could figure that out at the tables I play at.
There's one guy I can't figure, though... simply because he varies
his play a lot (will bet on almost random hole cards, raise based on
position or based on cards, and is somewhere between agressive and
passive, although he's certainly a bit on the loose side). He always
seems to win the tables he's at, and I can never place (even remotely)
whether he's bluffing or playing a top 2 pair on the flop... Any
advice?

thanks,

lucasford_.TakeThisOut@hotmail.com (Lucas Ford) wrote in message news:<8763a4af.0310060905.213b6a70.TakeThisOut@posting.google.com>...
> Depends on what you're talking about. Are you referring to reading
> players strictly in terms of tells? Or are you talking about learning
> to put your opponent on a particular hand or range of hands during the
> play of a single hand based on the baord cards and betting action?
>
> I don't put a lot of time in trying to pick up tells from my low limit
> opponents. Instead, I just look at how they play particular hands.
> Always pay attention, even when you're not in a hand. Look at what
> cards get shown down. Once you see the cards at showdown, quickly
> recap the hand in your head. What was he betting with? What was he
> calling with? What was he raising with? You'll find that most low
> limit players are not very tricky and in fact, can become quite
> predictable. You'll be surprised how much you can learn just from
> paying very close attention to the game at all times. A lot of
> players tune out when they're not in a hand. Thats not you. You're
> dialed in from the minute you sit down.
>
> Tells are swell and all but you'll pick up "tells" based on how your
> opponents bet, just by paying attention.
>
>
> Orothar.TakeThisOut@yahoo.com (Orothar) wrote in message news:<878fffc4.0310051829.50c04c99.TakeThisOut@posting.google.com>...
> > Hey all,
> > I'm relatively new to taking poker seriously (as something more
> > than just a thing I do with my budies) and am halfway decent at
> > pot-odds, position play, table selection, and avoiding my tells, but I
> > have absolutely no skill at figuring out and reading other people
> > during the game. I could use some hints or someplace to get started
> > in learning how to do this. I play texas holdem almost exclusively
> > (since I'm only a part timer and a poor college student I mostly stick
> > to the 2-4 tables, especially given my low skill level). Thanks for
> > you help.
 >> Stay informed about: A little help for an aspiring novice 

Aggressive means that a player tends to bet or raise when he has a hand, rather
than check or call. A passive player will tend to call rather than raise and
check rather than bet.

>
>Hey,
> Thanks all for the advice. Yeah, I'm not so much concerned with
>actual tells as I am with figuring out how approximately what cards
>people have, so I can judge how good mine are (in other words, I've
>got a fair skill at figuring my outs versus the hands that can beat me
>to get some idea of where I actually stand, and I know what hole cards
>to muck from the start and which ones to play, but thats just playing
>my own cards, not the table, so I only go up a little bit here and
>there, with the occasional good night and the odd run of bad cards
>here and there).
> Looking at agressive vs passive, what do you mean by that? I
>understand loose and tight (what hands will be played)... by
>aggressive / passive do you mean how willing the person is to raise on
>a given hand? So a loose agressive player tries to cap every time on
>poor hands, where as a tight passive player (me, as you said I ought
>to be) calls and slowplays even monster hands? I'm pretty sure I
>could figure that out at the tables I play at.
> There's one guy I can't figure, though... simply because he varies
>his play a lot (will bet on almost random hole cards, raise based on
>position or based on cards, and is somewhere between agressive and
>passive, although he's certainly a bit on the loose side). He always
>seems to win the tables he's at, and I can never place (even remotely)
>whether he's bluffing or playing a top 2 pair on the flop... Any
>advice?
>
>thanks,
>
>lucasford_@hotmail.com (Lucas Ford) wrote in message
>news:<8763a4af.0310060905.213b6a70 DeleteThis @posting.google.com>...
>> Depends on what you're talking about. Are you referring to reading
>> players strictly in terms of tells? Or are you talking about learning
>> to put your opponent on a particular hand or range of hands during the
>> play of a single hand based on the baord cards and betting action?
>>
>> I don't put a lot of time in trying to pick up tells from my low limit
>> opponents. Instead, I just look at how they play particular hands.
>> Always pay attention, even when you're not in a hand. Look at what
>> cards get shown down. Once you see the cards at showdown, quickly
>> recap the hand in your head. What was he betting with? What was he
>> calling with? What was he raising with? You'll find that most low
>> limit players are not very tricky and in fact, can become quite
>> predictable. You'll be surprised how much you can learn just from
>> paying very close attention to the game at all times. A lot of
>> players tune out when they're not in a hand. Thats not you. You're
>> dialed in from the minute you sit down.
>>
>> Tells are swell and all but you'll pick up "tells" based on how your
>> opponents bet, just by paying attention.
>>
>>
>> Orothar DeleteThis @yahoo.com (Orothar) wrote in message
>news:<878fffc4.0310051829.50c04c99 DeleteThis @posting.google.com>...
>> > Hey all,
>> > I'm relatively new to taking poker seriously (as something more
>> > than just a thing I do with my budies) and am halfway decent at
>> > pot-odds, position play, table selection, and avoiding my tells, but I
>> > have absolutely no skill at figuring out and reading other people
>> > during the game. I could use some hints or someplace to get started
>> > in learning how to do this. I play texas holdem almost exclusively
>> > (since I'm only a part timer and a poor college student I mostly stick
>> > to the 2-4 tables, especially given my low skill level). Thanks for
>> > you help.
>
>
>
>
>
>

>
>Hey,
> Thanks all for the advice. Yeah, I'm not so much concerned with
>actual tells as I am with figuring out how approximately what cards
>people have, so I can judge how good mine are (in other words, I've
>got a fair skill at figuring my outs versus the hands that can beat me
>to get some idea of where I actually stand, and I know what hole cards
>to muck from the start and which ones to play, but thats just playing
>my own cards, not the table, so I only go up a little bit here and
>there, with the occasional good night and the odd run of bad cards
>here and there).
> Looking at agressive vs passive, what do you mean by that? I
>understand loose and tight (what hands will be played)... by
>aggressive / passive do you mean how willing the person is to raise on
>a given hand? So a loose agressive player tries to cap every time on
>poor hands, where as a tight passive player (me, as you said I ought
>to be) calls and slowplays even monster hands? I'm pretty sure I
>could figure that out at the tables I play at.
> There's one guy I can't figure, though... simply because he varies
>his play a lot (will bet on almost random hole cards, raise based on
>position or based on cards, and is somewhere between agressive and
>passive, although he's certainly a bit on the loose side). He always
>seems to win the tables he's at, and I can never place (even remotely)
>whether he's bluffing or playing a top 2 pair on the flop... Any
>advice?
>
>thanks,
>
>lucasford_@hotmail.com (Lucas Ford) wrote in message
>news:<8763a4af.0310060905.213b6a70 DeleteThis @posting.google.com>...
>> Depends on what you're talking about. Are you referring to reading
>> players strictly in terms of tells? Or are you talking about learning
>> to put your opponent on a particular hand or range of hands during the
>> play of a single hand based on the baord cards and betting action?
>>
>> I don't put a lot of time in trying to pick up tells from my low limit
>> opponents. Instead, I just look at how they play particular hands.
>> Always pay attention, even when you're not in a hand. Look at what
>> cards get shown down. Once you see the cards at showdown, quickly
>> recap the hand in your head. What was he betting with? What was he
>> calling with? What was he raising with? You'll find that most low
>> limit players are not very tricky and in fact, can become quite
>> predictable. You'll be surprised how much you can learn just from
>> paying very close attention to the game at all times. A lot of
>> players tune out when they're not in a hand. Thats not you. You're
>> dialed in from the minute you sit down.
>>
>> Tells are swell and all but you'll pick up "tells" based on how your
>> opponents bet, just by paying attention.
>>
>>
>> Orothar DeleteThis @yahoo.com (Orothar) wrote in message
>news:<878fffc4.0310051829.50c04c99 DeleteThis @posting.google.com>...
>> > Hey all,
>> > I'm relatively new to taking poker seriously (as something more
>> > than just a thing I do with my budies) and am halfway decent at
>> > pot-odds, position play, table selection, and avoiding my tells, but I
>> > have absolutely no skill at figuring out and reading other people
>> > during the game. I could use some hints or someplace to get started
>> > in learning how to do this. I play texas holdem almost exclusively
>> > (since I'm only a part timer and a poor college student I mostly stick
>> > to the 2-4 tables, especially given my low skill level). Thanks for
>> > you help.
>
>
>
>
>
>
 >> Stay informed about: A little help for an aspiring novice 

Orothar <Orothar RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote in message news:878fffc4.0310051829.50c04c99@posting.google.com...
> Hey all,
> I'm relatively new to taking poker seriously (as something more
> than just a thing I do with my budies) and am halfway decent at
> pot-odds, position play, table selection, and avoiding my tells, but I
> have absolutely no skill at figuring out and reading other people
> during the game.

Do you want me to look like I have a Royal Flush!!! I can do that.
Would you like me to look like I am bluffing? I can do that also.

One problem with "reading people" is that most of the people
know! that you are trying to read them, and act accordingly,
either by hiding behind glasses and low-brimmed hats,
or by practicing how to present themselves consistently
whether they are bluffing or trapping.

Another problem is that, if you don't know how to read people,
you probably don't know how to prevent them from reading you either.

It helps if you realize that, though you feel somehow special
and/or more intelligent and/or superior to the next guy,
and really, really, really want to win, so do they.

Poker cards can be trusted, but poker faces cannot.

Spend less time on figuring out the faces, and more time
on figuring out the opposition hand possibilities,
especially right after the flop and also pre-flop.

Make haste slowly. And get a mirror.
 >> Stay informed about: A little help for an aspiring novice 

Orothar <Orothar.RemoveThis@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:878fffc4.0310070050.12ec03da@posting.google.com...

> There's one guy I can't figure, though... simply because he varies
> his play a lot (will bet on almost random hole cards, raise based on
> position or based on cards, and is somewhere between agressive and
> passive, although he's certainly a bit on the loose side). He always
> seems to win the tables he's at, and I can never place (even remotely)
> whether he's bluffing or playing a top 2 pair on the flop... Any
> advice?

Yes. Study and learn the lessons he taught you.
 >> Stay informed about: A little help for an aspiring novice