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Since: Feb 27, 2008 Posts: 1
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(Msg. 1) Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 9:52 am
Post subject: Need help figuring out this rule. No one seems to know. Archived from groups: rec>gambling>poker (more info?)
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Ok, here is the idea.
1 - 2 NL game.
First person raises to $12.
Now, the smallest amount that the next person could raise to is $22
because the initial raise from $2 to $12 is ten dollars, so $12 plus
ten is $22.
Now, given that same scenario, what if the first guy raises to $12 and
then the next guy goes all-in for $13, what would the min raise for
the next player be? How does that $1 extra on the all-in player effect
the next raise.
Any ideas? >> Stay informed about: Need help figuring out this rule. No one seems to know. |
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Since: Apr 30, 2007 Posts: 168
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(Msg. 2) Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 10:02 am
Post subject: Re: Need help figuring out this rule. No one seems to know. [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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As I understand it, an all-in bet is not considered a "full raise"
unless the increase in amount is equal to or greater than the
preceding bet/raise.
So if there is a $10 raise, and then an all-in only raises it by $1,
then that does not qualify as a raise, and the $1 cannot be re-raised
by the original raiser, unless someone else raises an additional $10
over the original raise. But a third player can make the $10 re-raise
just as if the all-in had not raised at all.
As I understand it, that is.
Good question for Card Player magazine tho.
On Feb 27, 12:52 pm, davidmill... DeleteThis @yahoo.com wrote:
> Ok, here is the idea.
>
> 1 - 2 NL game.
>
> First person raises to $12.
> Now, the smallest amount that the next person could raise to is $22
> because the initial raise from $2 to $12 is ten dollars, so $12 plus
> ten is $22.
>
> Now, given that same scenario, what if the first guy raises to $12 and
> then the next guy goes all-in for $13, what would the min raise for
> the next player be? How does that $1 extra on the all-in player effect
> the next raise.
>
> Any ideas? >> Stay informed about: Need help figuring out this rule. No one seems to know. |
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Since: Jan 12, 2007 Posts: 2118
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(Msg. 3) Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 10:31 am
Post subject: Re: Need help figuring out this rule. No one seems to know. [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Feb 27 2008 9:52 AM, davidmillsjd wrote:
> Ok, here is the idea.
>
> 1 - 2 NL game.
>
> First person raises to $12.
> Now, the smallest amount that the next person could raise to is $22
> because the initial raise from $2 to $12 is ten dollars, so $12 plus
> ten is $22.
>
> Now, given that same scenario, what if the first guy raises to $12 and
> then the next guy goes all-in for $13, what would the min raise for
> the next player be? How does that $1 extra on the all-in player effect
> the next raise.
>
> Any ideas?
$23.
Fell
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Since: Jan 16, 2007 Posts: 640
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(Msg. 4) Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 2:19 pm
Post subject: Re: Need help figuring out this rule. No one seems to know. [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"FellKnight"
>> Now, given that same scenario, what if the first guy raises to $12 and
>> then the next guy goes all-in for $13, what would the min raise for
>> the next player be? How does that $1 extra on the all-in player effect
>> the next raise.
>
> $23.
It would have been a little better to answer the exact question asked.
The minimum raise at that player is $10 ... there is a $13 call facing the
potential raiser. He can make it $23 to go at a minimum. >> Stay informed about: Need help figuring out this rule. No one seems to know. |
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Since: Jan 16, 2007 Posts: 640
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(Msg. 5) Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 2:21 pm
Post subject: Re: Need help figuring out this rule. No one seems to know. [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Since: Aug 10, 2007 Posts: 1537
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(Msg. 6) Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 6:23 pm
Post subject: Re: Need help figuring out this rule. No one seems to know. [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Feb 27 2008 12:52 PM, davidmillsjd.DeleteThis@yahoo.com wrote:
> Ok, here is the idea.
>
> 1 - 2 NL game.
>
> First person raises to $12.
> Now, the smallest amount that the next person could raise to is $22
> because the initial raise from $2 to $12 is ten dollars, so $12 plus
> ten is $22.
>
> Now, given that same scenario, what if the first guy raises to $12 and
> then the next guy goes all-in for $13, what would the min raise for
> the next player be? How does that $1 extra on the all-in player effect
> the next raise.
>
> Any ideas?
Hope this helps
Robert's Rules of poker
http://www.homepokertourney.com/roberts-rules-of-poker.htm
BETTING AND RAISING
6. Any wager not all-in must be at least the size of the previous bet or raise
in that round.
NO-LIMIT RULES
3. All raises must be equal to or greater than the size of the previous bet or
raise on that betting round, except for an all-in wager. Example: Player A bets
100 and player B raises to 200. Player C wishing to raise must raise at least
100 more, making the total bet at least 300. A player who has already acted and
is not facing a fullsize wager may not subsequently raise an all-in bet that is
less than the minimum bet or less than the full size of the last bet or raise.
(The half-the-size rule for reopening the betting is for limit poker only.)
4. Multiple all-in wagers, each of an amount too small to qualify as a raise,
still act as a raise and reopen the betting if the resulting wager size to a
player qualifies as a raise. Example: Player A bets $100 and Player B raises
$100 more, making the total bet $200. If Player C goes all in for less than $300
total (not a full $100 raise), and Player A calls, then Player B has no option
to raise again, because he wasn t fully raised. (Player A could have raised,
because Player B raised.)
Chris
----------------------
No point in being pessimistic. It wouldn't work anyway. - 6ballman - Feb 2007
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Since: Aug 10, 2007 Posts: 3168
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(Msg. 7) Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 7:52 am
Post subject: Re: Need help figuring out this rule. No one seems to know. [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Feb 27 2008 12:31 PM, FellKnight wrote:
> > Now, given that same scenario, what if the first guy raises to $12 and
> > then the next guy goes all-in for $13, what would the min raise for
> > the next player be? How does that $1 extra on the all-in player effect
> > the next raise.
> >
> > Any ideas?
>
> $23.
What if the first guy raises to $12, then next guy goes all-in for $13,
the next guy goes all-in for $14, the next guy goes all-in for $16, the
next guy goes all-in for $25, the next guy goes all-in for $30, and the
next guy goes all-in for $31. How much can the BB raise to if it folds
around to him?
---
Morphy
xaqmorphy.DeleteThis@donkeymanifesto.com
http://www.donkeymanifesto.com
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Since: Jan 16, 2007 Posts: 640
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(Msg. 8) Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 3:37 pm
Post subject: Re: Need help figuring out this rule. No one seems to know. [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"XaQ Morphy"
> What if the first guy raises to $12, then next guy goes all-in for $13,
> the next guy goes all-in for $14, the next guy goes all-in for $16, the
> next guy goes all-in for $25, the next guy goes all-in for $30, and the
> next guy goes all-in for $31. How much can the BB raise to if it folds
> around to him?
Morph ... you should not ask folks loaded questions. The BB can go all in
if he wants ... he could do that in the original situation. The BB has not
acted yet. He can raise all of his chips.
Now, in most rooms, the MINIMUM raise is still ten dollars over the call to
the BB ... in this case you say there is a 31-2 = 29 dollars to call facing
the big blind. If he wants to call, he puts in 29 dollars more with the 2
that is the BB.
His minimum raise in most rooms is ten dollars more or 31+10 = 41 to go.
(39 more for him to add to the 2).
However, some rooms "add" the short-raise multiple all-ins to meet the
full-raise amount, which makes things more complicated. Of course, that
situation is NOT presented in your new example. >> Stay informed about: Need help figuring out this rule. No one seems to know. |
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Since: Aug 10, 2007 Posts: 1537
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(Msg. 9) Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 4:09 pm
Post subject: Re: Need help figuring out this rule. No one seems to know. [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Feb 28 2008 10:52 AM, XaQ Morphy wrote:
> On Feb 27 2008 12:31 PM, FellKnight wrote:
>
> > > Now, given that same scenario, what if the first guy raises to $12 and
> > > then the next guy goes all-in for $13, what would the min raise for
> > > the next player be? How does that $1 extra on the all-in player effect
> > > the next raise.
> > >
> > > Any ideas?
> >
> > $23.
>
> What if the first guy raises to $12, then next guy goes all-in for $13,
> the next guy goes all-in for $14, the next guy goes all-in for $16, the
> next guy goes all-in for $25, the next guy goes all-in for $30, and the
> next guy goes all-in for $31. How much can the BB raise to if it folds
> around to him?
>
> ---
> Morphy
> xaqmorphy.DeleteThis@donkeymanifesto.com
> http://www.donkeymanifesto.com/
Your question made my head hurt but I'll try anyway
1 - 12
2 - 13
3 - 14
4 - 16
5 - 25 - at this point the betting is reopend for seat 1
6 - 30
7 - 31
8 - fold
9 - fold
10 - call is 31, rasie is to a minimum of 38 (12 bet + 13 raise + 13 raise) and
this will reopen the betting for seat 7
But your question says How much can the BB raise to...? The answer to this is
everything he has or all in.
How'd I do?
Now if you were the button what would you do?
In a cash game i would push all in with just about any hand. there are somany
people in there that it is all just bingo now anyway. I would also have the
reload ready.
In a tourney I think I would fold anything except the top 5 hands. the reason is
that it is all just bingo now and unless I had a strong potential hand then it
is too big a risk.
What are your thoughts?
Chris
----------------------
No point in being pessimistic. It wouldn't work anyway. - 6ballman - Feb 2007
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Since: Jan 12, 2007 Posts: 2118
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(Msg. 10) Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 4:09 pm
Post subject: Re: Need help figuring out this rule. No one seems to know. [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Since: Jan 16, 2007 Posts: 640
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(Msg. 11) Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 4:09 pm
Post subject: Re: Need help figuring out this rule. No one seems to know. [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"CHarrison100"
> Your question made my head hurt but I'll try anyway
>
> 1 - 12
> 2 - 13
> 3 - 14
> 4 - 16
> 5 - 25 - at this point the betting is reopend for seat 1
> 6 - 30
> 7 - 31
> 8 - fold
> 9 - fold
> 10 - call is 31, rasie is to a minimum of 38 (12 bet + 13 raise + 13
> raise) and
> this will reopen the betting for seat 7
I presume you mean for 10 to be the BB and the small blind (9) folded. You
are mistaking the all in amounts as "raises" ... they are not. There is
never a proper raise of ten dollars or more in the example.
Player 1 raises ten dollars and makes it 12 to go.
Player 2 is all in and it is 13 to go. (Short raise is 1)
Player 3 is all in and it is 14 to go. (Short raise is 1)
Player 4 is all in and it is 16 to go. (Short raise is 2)
Player 5 is all in and it is 25 to go. (Short raise is 9)
..... if the rooms "adds" short raises, there is an added-up-raise of 13
......
I presume that is what you mean by the betting is reopened for Player 1.
If the room does not ADD short raises, the "raise minimum remains at 10.
Player 6 is all in and it is 30 to go. (Short raise is 5)
Player 7 is all in and it is 31 to go. (Short raise is 1)
> But your question says How much can the BB raise to...? The answer to this
> is
> everything he has or all in.
You are correct that Player 10 has not acted and can raise as much as he
wants over the minimum ... you do not say whether you think his minimum
raise is 10 or 19 (or even 13)? You are correct that his call is to 31, but
he is the big blind and already has 2 in the pot. His call is 29 chips
more. If he wants to raise the minimum, we can argue whether it is 10 or 19
or 13 ... I think the better rule is that it remains at 10. (There was not
another full raise after the ten dollar raise.)
Depending on how the room calculates minimum raises that "count" toward
establishing minimum future raises ... he can raise 10 or 19 or 13. That
would be to 41, 50 or 44 respectively. All these would reopen the betting
for player 1. Player 7 is all in and has no more chips ... unless he took
some out of his pocket while everyone was arguing about minimum raises ...
no reopen for him. >> Stay informed about: Need help figuring out this rule. No one seems to know. |
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Since: Aug 10, 2007 Posts: 1537
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(Msg. 12) Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 4:49 pm
Post subject: Re: Need help figuring out this rule. No one seems to know. [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Feb 28 2008 12:02 PM, FellKnight wrote:
> On Feb 28 2008 8:09 AM, CHarrison100 wrote:
>
>
> > What are your thoughts?
>
> His thoughts are why do people who want to play NL insist on making
> minimum raises?
>
> Fell
I know he hates the gobble. I agree that in most situations the min raise is
bad. You helped me with that.
The OP I think was trying to understand what opens the betting back up and his
situation was a tons of all ins.
What would you do if you were the BB in Morphy's scenario?
Chris
----------------------
No point in being pessimistic. It wouldn't work anyway. - 6ballman - Feb 2007
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