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Since: Jan 12, 2007
Posts: 120
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(Msg. 1) Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 7:03 pm
Post subject: I need help with a home game situation
Archived from groups: rec>gambling>poker (more info?)
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I played in a small LLHE home game with 5 players last night. This
situation arose at the end of one particular hand. One thing to keep in
mind is that none of us are greatly skilled in running a game, and 3 of
the 5 are pretty raw beginners.
I'm not entirely sure of all of the action up until the turn, but on the
turn there were three players, the dealer/button, and the two players to
the dealer's right. I guess you could say players 3, 4, and 5. 5 bets, 3
and 4 call.
There's been lots of talk about misc. stuff during the hand and a fair
amount of distraction. Player 3 is one of the raw beginners and tends to
hold his hole cards in his hands, in spite of a number of discussions
about not doing that. This is one of those times when he's holding his
cards, and it's in a way that with a quick glance you wouldn't see that
he still had cards.
Player 5 (dealer) bets. Player 4 calls and throws in his chips. Dealer
lays down his hand and asks player 4 what he has. Player 4 concedes the
hand and the dealer starts to rake in the chips.
At this point, player 3 says he has a straight, which would have won the
hand. We asked him if he had put any chips in the pot to call the bet on
the river. He said he didn't. He made a vague comment about our not
having given him time to act, but overall wasn't pushing the issue.
The big problem was that nobody could see that he was still in the hand.
However, nobody was paying all that much attention, either.
Pretty much as a group, we decided he was screwed because he didn't call
the river bet. But an argument could be made that player 4 acted out of
turn and didn't give 3 a chance. But this is countered somewhat by the
fact that 3 was "concealing" his cards and nobody was aware he still was
in the hand.
What's the proper response to a situation like this?
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Since: Aug 10, 2007
Posts: 3613
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(Msg. 2) Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 7:30 pm
Post subject: Re: I need help with a home game situation [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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> There's been lots of talk about misc. stuff during the hand and a fair
> amount of distraction. Player 3 is one of the raw beginners and tends to
> hold his hole cards in his hands, in spite of a number of discussions
> about not doing that. This is one of those times when he's holding his
> cards, and it's in a way that with a quick glance you wouldn't see that
> he still had cards.
Well, next time he'll learn. If people can't listen and follow
directions, they pay the price. Tell him that there's a reason why the
rule is the cards have to stay on the table, and that he's been warned
repeatedly and now he loses the pot. You don't have to be a dick about
it, but say something like "yeah, that's exactly why we keep mentioning
it." If he doesn't learn after that, too bad.
---
Morphy
xaqmorphy.RemoveThis@donkeymanifesto.com
http://www.donkeymanifesto.com
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Since: Apr 26, 2007
Posts: 921
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(Msg. 3) Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 2:23 am
Post subject: Re: I need help with a home game situation [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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On Oct 26 2007 7:03 PM, RedKnave wrote:
> I played in a small LLHE home game with 5 players last night. This
> situation arose at the end of one particular hand. One thing to keep in
> mind is that none of us are greatly skilled in running a game, and 3 of
> the 5 are pretty raw beginners.
>
> I'm not entirely sure of all of the action up until the turn, but on the
> turn there were three players, the dealer/button, and the two players to
> the dealer's right. I guess you could say players 3, 4, and 5. 5 bets, 3
> and 4 call.
>
> There's been lots of talk about misc. stuff during the hand and a fair
> amount of distraction. Player 3 is one of the raw beginners and tends to
> hold his hole cards in his hands, in spite of a number of discussions
> about not doing that. This is one of those times when he's holding his
> cards, and it's in a way that with a quick glance you wouldn't see that
> he still had cards.
>
> Player 5 (dealer) bets. Player 4 calls and throws in his chips. Dealer
> lays down his hand and asks player 4 what he has. Player 4 concedes the
> hand and the dealer starts to rake in the chips.
>
> At this point, player 3 says he has a straight, which would have won the
> hand. We asked him if he had put any chips in the pot to call the bet on
> the river. He said he didn't. He made a vague comment about our not
> having given him time to act, but overall wasn't pushing the issue.
>
> The big problem was that nobody could see that he was still in the hand.
> However, nobody was paying all that much attention, either.
>
> Pretty much as a group, we decided he was screwed because he didn't call
> the river bet. But an argument could be made that player 4 acted out of
> turn and didn't give 3 a chance. But this is countered somewhat by the
> fact that 3 was "concealing" his cards and nobody was aware he still was
> in the hand.
>
> What's the proper response to a situation like this?
Call the floorman, doggy?
_______________________________________________________________
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Since: Aug 10, 2007
Posts: 3613
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(Msg. 4) Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 2:23 am
Post subject: Re: I need help with a home game situation [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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> Call the floorman, doggy?
Do you even read the posts you reply to? I mean it's not like you have to
go out of your way to show RGP that you're a fuckin idiot, but can you at
least try? Maybe put SOME effort into it?
I'm putting you to the task, hanks. You can either step up, or continue
to stew around in the filth that is your stupidity. It's all up to you
now hanks. Only you can make the change.
---
Morphy
xaqmorphy DeleteThis @donkeymanifesto.com
http://www.donkeymanifesto.com
_______________________________________________________________________
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Since: Jan 12, 2007
Posts: 120
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(Msg. 5) Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 7:39 am
Post subject: Re: I need help with a home game situation [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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On Oct 26 2007 10:30 PM, XaQ Morphy wrote:
> > There's been lots of talk about misc. stuff during the hand and a fair
> > amount of distraction. Player 3 is one of the raw beginners and tends to
> > hold his hole cards in his hands, in spite of a number of discussions
> > about not doing that. This is one of those times when he's holding his
> > cards, and it's in a way that with a quick glance you wouldn't see that
> > he still had cards.
>
> Well, next time he'll learn. If people can't listen and follow
> directions, they pay the price. Tell him that there's a reason why the
> rule is the cards have to stay on the table, and that he's been warned
> repeatedly and now he loses the pot. You don't have to be a dick about
> it, but say something like "yeah, that's exactly why we keep mentioning
> it." If he doesn't learn after that, too bad.
>
> ---
> Morphy
> xaqmorphy.DeleteThis@donkeymanifesto.com
> http://www.donkeymanifesto.com
Thanks, Morphy.
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Since: Jan 24, 2007
Posts: 579
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(Msg. 6) Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 4:12 pm
Post subject: Re: I need help with a home game situation [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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On Oct 26 2007 10:32 PM, XaQ Morphy wrote:
> > Call the floorman, doggy?
>
> Do you even read the posts you reply to? I mean it's not like you have to
> go out of your way to show RGP that you're a fuckin idiot, but can you at
> least try? Maybe put SOME effort into it?
>
> I'm putting you to the task, hanks. You can either step up, or continue
> to stew around in the filth that is your stupidity. It's all up to you
> now hanks. Only you can make the change.
>
> ---
> Morphy
> xaqmorphy.DeleteThis@donkeymanifesto.com
> http://www.donkeymanifesto.com
hanks: [answers the private phone] hanks.
XaQMorphy: hanks. This is Morphy. Listen to me.
hanks: Where are you?
Morphy: Do'nt worry about where I am. Listen, we have other posters that
can handle this, you ca'nt be influenced by Popinjay or anybody else, you
have to make up your own mind.
hanks: [hears a beep] Pokerworld, hanks. RGP posts will be ready to launch
in 4 minutes.
Morphy: Listen hanks, listen hanks, do'nt do this. Do'nt do this hanks,
once you post, it can not come back, they can not come back hanks, and you
know the reprocations if you're wrong, goddamnit. hanks, if you post now,
you'll be posting when you're blind and crippled, you understand that?
hanks: Where the fuck are you?
Morphy: Do not press the posting trigger! Do not hanks. We're counting
you, it is up to YOU now hanks. It's up to you.
_______________________________________________________________________
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Since: Jan 15, 2007
Posts: 93
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(Msg. 7) Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 9:06 pm
Post subject: Re: I need help with a home game situation [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Kinnipak wrote:
> hanks: [answers the private phone] hanks.
> XaQMorphy: hanks. This is Morphy. Listen to me.
> hanks: Where are you?
> Morphy: Do'nt worry about where I am. Listen, we have other posters that
> can handle this, you ca'nt be influenced by Popinjay or anybody else, you
> have to make up your own mind.
> hanks: [hears a beep] Pokerworld, hanks. RGP posts will be ready to launch
> in 4 minutes.
> Morphy: Listen hanks, listen hanks, do'nt do this. Do'nt do this hanks,
> once you post, it can not come back, they can not come back hanks, and you
> know the reprocations if you're wrong, goddamnit. hanks, if you post now,
> you'll be posting when you're blind and crippled, you understand that?
> hanks: Where the fuck are you?
> Morphy: Do not press the posting trigger! Do not hanks. We're counting
> you, it is up to YOU now hanks. It's up to you.
_Crimson Tide_ reference, nice.
--
Erik Max Francis && max.DeleteThis@alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && AIM, Y!M erikmaxfrancis
And I care so much / I don't care anymore
-- Lamya >> Stay informed about: I need help with a home game situation |
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Since: Aug 13, 2007
Posts: 1609
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(Msg. 8) Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 2:50 am
Post subject: Re: I need help with a home game situation [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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It's his turn. He can call or fold or raise. Up to him.
Everybody was out of turn, btw.
On Oct 26 2007 9:03 PM, RedKnave wrote:
> I played in a small LLHE home game with 5 players last night. This
> situation arose at the end of one particular hand. One thing to keep in
> mind is that none of us are greatly skilled in running a game, and 3 of
> the 5 are pretty raw beginners.
>
> I'm not entirely sure of all of the action up until the turn, but on the
> turn there were three players, the dealer/button, and the two players to
> the dealer's right. I guess you could say players 3, 4, and 5. 5 bets, 3
> and 4 call.
>
> There's been lots of talk about misc. stuff during the hand and a fair
> amount of distraction. Player 3 is one of the raw beginners and tends to
> hold his hole cards in his hands, in spite of a number of discussions
> about not doing that. This is one of those times when he's holding his
> cards, and it's in a way that with a quick glance you wouldn't see that
> he still had cards.
>
> Player 5 (dealer) bets. Player 4 calls and throws in his chips. Dealer
> lays down his hand and asks player 4 what he has. Player 4 concedes the
> hand and the dealer starts to rake in the chips.
>
> At this point, player 3 says he has a straight, which would have won the
> hand. We asked him if he had put any chips in the pot to call the bet on
> the river. He said he didn't. He made a vague comment about our not
> having given him time to act, but overall wasn't pushing the issue.
>
> The big problem was that nobody could see that he was still in the hand.
> However, nobody was paying all that much attention, either.
>
> Pretty much as a group, we decided he was screwed because he didn't call
> the river bet. But an argument could be made that player 4 acted out of
> turn and didn't give 3 a chance. But this is countered somewhat by the
> fact that 3 was "concealing" his cards and nobody was aware he still was
> in the hand.
>
> What's the proper response to a situation like this?
Gary Carson
http://www.garycarson.com
_______________________________________________________________
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Since: Jun 01, 2007
Posts: 569
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(Msg. 9) Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 3:02 am
Post subject: Re: I need help with a home game situation [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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> Well, next time he'll learn. If people can't listen and follow
> directions, they pay the price. Tell him that there's a reason why the
> rule is the cards have to stay on the table, and that he's been warned
> repeatedly and now he loses the pot. You don't have to be a dick about
> it, but say something like "yeah, that's exactly why we keep mentioning
> it." If he doesn't learn after that, too bad.
lol
I agree with you here MOrp. Does that make you feel stupid? Just
curious >> Stay informed about: I need help with a home game situation |
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Since: Jan 12, 2007
Posts: 120
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(Msg. 10) Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 5:48 am
Post subject: Re: I need help with a home game situation [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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On Oct 28 2007 10:50 PM, Gary Carson wrote:
> It's his turn. He can call or fold or raise. Up to him.
>
> Everybody was out of turn, btw.
Fundamentally, you're right, of course, if we had known he was in the
hand. (The first action on the river was a check by the cutoff, which
was, as it turned out, out of turn.) If we had been paying attention
(better yet, if the dealer had been paying attention), we would/should
have known this. But it's a small game of mostly raw beginners who spend
a lot of time talking about sports, travel, politics, and food (all of the
important things left to most of us, wild sex being years in the past for
the most part), and we get distracted easily.
If you happen to check back on this, Gary, I'm interested if you're saying
that, even though he had some responsibility in the mess by virtue of
holding his cards in his hands in a covered manner which caused the rest
of us not to know he still had cards, should we still have let him call,
fold, or raise?
------
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Since: Jan 21, 2007
Posts: 1781
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(Msg. 11) Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 9:08 am
Post subject: Re: I need help with a home game situation [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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"RedKnave"
>> It's his turn. He can call or fold or raise. Up to him.
>>
>> Everybody was out of turn, btw.
>
> Fundamentally, you're right, of course, if we had known he was in the
> hand. (The first action on the river was a check by the cutoff, which
> was, as it turned out, out of turn.) If we had been paying attention
> (better yet, if the dealer had been paying attention), we would/should
> have known this. But it's a small game of mostly raw beginners who spend
> a lot of time talking about sports, travel, politics, and food (all of the
> important things left to most of us, wild sex being years in the past for
> the most part), and we get distracted easily.
>
> If you happen to check back on this, Gary, I'm interested if you're saying
> that, even though he had some responsibility in the mess by virtue of
> holding his cards in his hands in a covered manner which caused the rest
> of us not to know he still had cards, should we still have let him call,
> fold, or raise?
Whoever "hosts" the game must decide what sort of game they want to have.
You are likely to have many of these sorts of things happening. No way to
tell which ones will be repeated.
If you want the "don't cover your cards" rule to be the one that needs to be
"learned" ... then kill the hand and make him think about it more.
If you want the "pay attention to who has cards" idea to be controlling (or
the "don't play out of turn" idea), tell people to watch more closely and
not play out of turn ... say don't turn over your cards when there is still
someone covering his cards in the hand. Let the guy do what he wants.
Put it to a vote of everyone that is NOT in the hand. Ask who has a gun and
is really mad. There are many ways to solve this problem
There is no "right" answer in this sort of home game situation (if the same
thing happened in a casino room, you might get as many "solutions" as there
are rooms). Do the best you can and try to keep tempers down and remember
that you only have five people playing ... you don't want to lose even one
of them. It is a spiritual thing. >> Stay informed about: I need help with a home game situation |
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Since: Jan 12, 2007
Posts: 120
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(Msg. 12) Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 9:08 am
Post subject: Re: I need help with a home game situation [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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On Oct 29 2007 10:08 AM, da pickle wrote:
> "RedKnave"
>
> >> It's his turn. He can call or fold or raise. Up to him.
> >>
> >> Everybody was out of turn, btw.
> >
> > Fundamentally, you're right, of course, if we had known he was in the
> > hand. (The first action on the river was a check by the cutoff, which
> > was, as it turned out, out of turn.) If we had been paying attention
> > (better yet, if the dealer had been paying attention), we would/should
> > have known this. But it's a small game of mostly raw beginners who spend
> > a lot of time talking about sports, travel, politics, and food (all of the
> > important things left to most of us, wild sex being years in the past for
> > the most part), and we get distracted easily.
> >
> > If you happen to check back on this, Gary, I'm interested if you're saying
> > that, even though he had some responsibility in the mess by virtue of
> > holding his cards in his hands in a covered manner which caused the rest
> > of us not to know he still had cards, should we still have let him call,
> > fold, or raise?
>
> Whoever "hosts" the game must decide what sort of game they want to have.
> You are likely to have many of these sorts of things happening. No way to
> tell which ones will be repeated.
>
> If you want the "don't cover your cards" rule to be the one that needs to be
> "learned" ... then kill the hand and make him think about it more.
>
> If you want the "pay attention to who has cards" idea to be controlling (or
> the "don't play out of turn" idea), tell people to watch more closely and
> not play out of turn ... say don't turn over your cards when there is still
> someone covering his cards in the hand. Let the guy do what he wants.
>
> Put it to a vote of everyone that is NOT in the hand. Ask who has a gun and
> is really mad. There are many ways to solve this problem
>
> There is no "right" answer in this sort of home game situation (if the same
> thing happened in a casino room, you might get as many "solutions" as there
> are rooms). Do the best you can and try to keep tempers down and remember
> that you only have five people playing ... you don't want to lose even one
> of them. It is a spiritual thing.
Good advice. That's pretty much the way it went down, but I'm always
interested in trying to help all of us in this little game learn how
things "should" be done, just in case any of us ends up in a real casino
thinking we know wtf is going on. Thanks for your response. I'll pass it
on.
______________________________________________________________________
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Since: Aug 13, 2007
Posts: 1609
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(Msg. 13) Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 5:14 pm
Post subject: Re: I need help with a home game situation [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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On Oct 29 2007 8:48 AM, RedKnave wrote:
> On Oct 28 2007 10:50 PM, Gary Carson wrote:
>
> > It's his turn. He can call or fold or raise. Up to him.
> >
> > Everybody was out of turn, btw.
>
> Fundamentally, you're right, of course, if we had known he was in the
> hand. (The first action on the river was a check by the cutoff, which
> was, as it turned out, out of turn.) If we had been paying attention
> (better yet, if the dealer had been paying attention), we would/should
> have known this. But it's a small game of mostly raw beginners who spend
> a lot of time talking about sports, travel, politics, and food (all of the
> important things left to most of us, wild sex being years in the past for
> the most part), and we get distracted easily.
>
> If you happen to check back on this, Gary, I'm interested if you're saying
> that, even though he had some responsibility in the mess by virtue of
> holding his cards in his hands in a covered manner which caused the rest
> of us not to know he still had cards, should we still have let him call,
> fold, or raise?
Yes.
If you think he was doing that on purpose then just don't invite him back.
Gary Carson
http://www.garycarson.com
_______________________________________________________________
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Since: Jan 12, 2007
Posts: 120
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(Msg. 14) Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 5:15 pm
Post subject: Re: I need help with a home game situation [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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On Oct 29 2007 1:14 PM, Gary Carson wrote:
> On Oct 29 2007 8:48 AM, RedKnave wrote:
>
> > On Oct 28 2007 10:50 PM, Gary Carson wrote:
> >
> > > It's his turn. He can call or fold or raise. Up to him.
> > >
> > > Everybody was out of turn, btw.
> >
> > Fundamentally, you're right, of course, if we had known he was in the
> > hand. (The first action on the river was a check by the cutoff, which
> > was, as it turned out, out of turn.) If we had been paying attention
> > (better yet, if the dealer had been paying attention), we would/should
> > have known this. But it's a small game of mostly raw beginners who spend
> > a lot of time talking about sports, travel, politics, and food (all of the
> > important things left to most of us, wild sex being years in the past for
> > the most part), and we get distracted easily.
> >
> > If you happen to check back on this, Gary, I'm interested if you're saying
> > that, even though he had some responsibility in the mess by virtue of
> > holding his cards in his hands in a covered manner which caused the rest
> > of us not to know he still had cards, should we still have let him call,
> > fold, or raise?
>
> Yes.
>
> If you think he was doing that on purpose then just don't invite him back.
>
> Gary Carson
> http://www.garycarson.com
Sage advice. Thanks.
-----
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Since: Apr 26, 2007
Posts: 921
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(Msg. 15) Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 3:11 am
Post subject: Re: I need help with a home game situation [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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On Oct 29 2007 6:15 AM, da pickle wrote:
> "RedKnave"
>
> >> It's his turn. He can call or fold or raise. Up to him.
> >>
> >> Everybody was out of turn, btw.
> >
> > Fundamentally, you're right, of course, if we had known he was in the
> > hand. (The first action on the river was a check by the cutoff, which
> > was, as it turned out, out of turn.) If we had been paying attention
> > (better yet, if the dealer had been paying attention), we would/should
> > have known this. But it's a small game of mostly raw beginners who spend
> > a lot of time talking about sports, travel, politics, and food (all of the
> > important things left to most of us, wild sex being years in the past for
> > the most part), and we get distracted easily.
> >
> > If you happen to check back on this, Gary, I'm interested if you're saying
> > that, even though he had some responsibility in the mess by virtue of
> > holding his cards in his hands in a covered manner which caused the rest
> > of us not to know he still had cards, should we still have let him call,
> > fold, or raise?
>
> Whoever "hosts" the game must decide what sort of game they want to have.
> You are likely to have many of these sorts of things happening. No way to
> tell which ones will be repeated.
>
> If you want the "don't cover your cards" rule to be the one that needs to be
> "learned" ... then kill the hand and make him think about it more.
>
> If you want the "pay attention to who has cards" idea to be controlling (or
> the "don't play out of turn" idea), tell people to watch more closely and
> not play out of turn ... say don't turn over your cards when there is still
> someone covering his cards in the hand. Let the guy do what he wants.
>
> Put it to a vote of everyone that is NOT in the hand. Ask who has a gun and
> is really mad. There are many ways to solve this problem
>
> There is no "right" answer in this sort of home game situation (if the same
> thing happened in a casino room, you might get as many "solutions" as there
> are rooms). Do the best you can and try to keep tempers down and remember
> that you only have five people playing ... you don't want to lose even one
> of them. It is a spiritual thing.
Gee thanks to the MASTER of obfuscation!!!!!
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